Vid chat: visualising effects

[bop_radar]

Vidding chats return! :) For those of you new to them, you can check out previous chats here.

This week's topic is visualising effects and it is co-moderated by lim. We'd really love this chat to function as a kind of shared workshop, with people sharing ideas with each other. So if you have a track out there that you're working with or considering working with and would like some shared brainstorming, share it with us here!

Below is an introduction from each of us.

From lim:

So, for me, effects are no different or separate from vidding; they're not an extra, they're not added on, they're an integral part of vidding, so I have a hard time not visualising them. I make visual associations all the time when I listen to music. Music is a mental landscape through which it's possible to move, populated and dynamic: like a holodeck, I spose.

I do a lot of free association when I'm vidding. In the first mp3 I've recorded myself playing through a track and just chunnered on about whatever the music seems to say, and what it looks like to me, what it sparks in my brain. I do this over and over when I'm vidding, and each time I'll get different ideas, visuals, elements to play with.

Audio file: Vidding Visualisation

I've tried to translate that into words, but it's a pretty right-brain activity, so there's a lot of umming and dorkalicious garblement, but I'm hoping that will encourage you to chunner on back to me without fear of being the dorkiest person in the post, haha!

I invite anyone who has a track they're working with to post it and for anyone who has a response, association, or visual, to comment in that thread.

Remember, we're ignoring the lyrics for now. Treat the voice/s as just another instrument, another element in the musical landscape. Listen to the shimmeryness, or growliness, or gloopiness of a voice, not what it's saying in English.

Then tomorrowish, I'm gonna pick a few responses and actually make what we're see-hearing, and I invite anyone who wants to to join in there too.

From Bop:

I'm a pretty odd one to be co-hosting this perhaps, as I am not a vidder who feels comfortable using effects. But hopefully by doing so I'll help others like me dip their toe in the waters. ;)

I don't know about the rest of you, but listening to lim's thoughts here makes me feel a bit less daunted going into the chat. For starters, I realised that I do already do visualisation work myself, even if I tend to think of it only in terms of clip choices (and not what effects to put on clips). It was also really 'normalising' to hear someone else have rambly associations about a track. And yes, it's really hard to put such a right-brain activity into words, but we can all have a go. :)

I don't want to say too much... I just want to say welcome (back) to vid chats, I hope you will all find this a helpful, friendly and constructive 'space'. It takes a bit of courage to share your thoughts with other vidders, I know, but hopefully this is somewhere where we can all reach out to each other a bit. I'm prepared to be a dork if you are. :p And just a reminder that you are very much encouraged here to reply to other commenters, not just the original poster(s)! And you are welcome here any time--there is no 'late' in vid chats.

For this chat in particular, I really encourage you to share your tracks, as lim suggests--how often do we get a chance to brainstorm with other vidders? Perhaps you could use one you've never been quite sure how to tackle (I know I have lots of those!).

If you don't have a track yourself but want to take part, please, PLEASE feel free to listen to other people's tracks and share your associations or ideas--you don't have to be an 'expert' to do this--we're just messing around here, no pressure, ok? And commenting to each other is a great way to take part here, even if it's just a 'hi, that's a really interesting track! made me think of ...'

And if you have any questions or random niggly things you've always wanted to ask about visualising, then feel free to share those in comments too. By all means share any interesting experiences you've had visualising effects too.

There's no rush either--I would really like to encourage people to drop back in here over the next week or so (or any time!). lim and I will pop into the comments as soon as we can, timezones and personal commitments permitting. See you soon! :)

ETA: Update! We shall relaxedly be attempting to make some things resulting from the conversations herein over the next week or so... we encourage anyone who wants to to try making something (for example "haze on the sand" or "red/green blur") and share it. I promise to handhold for anyone who fears their effects thing may look unintentionally tragic. :) We're just playing, yes? :)

Comments

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

the translation of the characteristics, the wibbly wobbly fiddle for example, into visual effects beyond basic clip choices, characters, or action
Same! I realised I do do this kind of visualisation but I nearly always then translate it to clip choices or character meta. Never effects. The only exception I can think of is when I use effects from the source--visualisation has sometimes led me to think of specific effects from the source--but that's still kind of a clip really.

However, even if I don't naturally think of effects (yet?) this conversation is making me realise that visualisation is valuable creative work that I should never underestimate in the process. That's a good thing for someone like me to learn because I didn't have any creative aspect to my life before vidding and things like visualisation still sit kind of awkwardly with me (like I can feel sheepish or guilty about spending time doing them--which is silly really).

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

::nodnod:: My first instinct is always to pair up the visualizations with images that I have in my head -- and those are always (or almost always) images that actually appeared on the show. Rarely I have one of those "oh wait, that shot doesn't actually exist" disappointments, and I have sometimes used effects at that point to create something similar. But I rarely seem able to come up with the effects as part of the visualization process, unless they're thematically related to the vid concept (as in "The Lonely People").

Arguably, I believe that all effects should be thematically related to the vid concept, but sometimes you just need a transition to smooth things out, or a matte to remove undesired visual information from a shot.

this conversation is making me realise that visualisation is valuable creative work that I should never underestimate in the process

Absolutely true! I sit on songs for a long, long time, and indulging my visualizations is the main reason for it. I've never regretted it.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

Rarely I have one of those "oh wait, that shot doesn't actually exist" disappointments...
I have those moments ALL THE TIME. :|

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

I never have them. If it's not in the source, it doesn't go into my vid. And I feel deeply uncomfortable with tinkering with anything from the source in case someone notices how 'untrue' it is. Talk about hilarious paranoia! There are vids I'd love to make but I can't because the source doesn't exist. C'est la vie. But I think it's awesome you fight to overcome that lack.

[amnisias.livejournal.com]

I'm just like that, I feel a strong obligation to stay true to the source material (and canon). For some reason I have no problems with adding effects to the material but I can't seem to bring myself to using secondary sources. It kind of seems like cheating, I don't know. And then I see something like Nikki's Fall Of Man, and feel really stupid, because being more flexible means being able to really make meaningful comments and bring out the meta in a vid without being tied down by what's in the source. This is definitely something I will want to explore in future.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah, secondary source is a BIIIIIIG no-no in my book (and I'm a hard sell on it in other people's vids too--it often feels 'pasted on yay!' to me, even when the vidding prowess is remarkable). But yes, I do see how secondary source is freeing and it also seems more .... I don't know, more imaginative, less bound and restricted... so I do envy vidders that embrace it. I make baby steps towards that...

but even with effects I stick to canon. The most 'effects-y' vid I ever made just really used a shot that existed with in canon, slightly distorted and out of context as a recurrent feature. Some people thought I made it. Ha! As if!

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I never have them.

So you never plan a vid in your head with, say, a clip of Lex walking down stairs, and then when you go to the source you find there is no such clip? Or that it exists, but it doesn't look at all like you thought?

If it's not in the source, it doesn't go into my vid. And I feel deeply uncomfortable with tinkering with anything from the source in case someone notices how 'untrue' it is.

It's funny, I've never felt that way about visual source, but I used to be that way about the music. I couldn't bear to alter it in any way. The song felt somehow holy to me, and it was my duty to use every note and word of it, no matter how challenging: part of my job as a vidder. As you say, I felt it was cheating to mess with the music. I'm not really sure what changed my mind about that, but I've been cutting songs for a few years now.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I find the shot I had in mind does not work, yes. But I never think of a shot that doesn't exist... to be honest that's partly because I tend to clip while I visualise--one process feeds the other. So as I clip I'm watching for resonance with the musical track. Of course I vid in my head a lot too--but yeah, when I do, I can only summon up shots I've actually seen. I think my visual mind is quite underdeveloped.

I felt it was cheating to mess with the music. I'm not really sure what changed my mind about that, but I've been cutting songs for a few years now
Isn't it funny the little hurdles we build ourselves without even noticing? That's an interesting one! I had no problem hacking tracks up... :) But I'm making a slash vid at the moment that is very very slightly AU (like seriously, most fans wouldn't even spot the AU) and I am FREAKING OUT about manipulating the context of some shots. Makes me LOL when I think of how fearlessly people like Talitha and Ferdalump use shots for their own ship agendas...

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I think I've just generally been opening up creatively over time. Things that used to be limitations are no longer. I care less about what's been done before. I care less about the "rules". I care more about realizing my vision, doing work that is satisfying for me, and having a good time.

Sometimes I'm mildly surprised that I have any audience left at all. (: But I've been very fortunate that so many people are willing to come with me on this journey.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

That's really cool! :) I hope to do that one day! At the moment I think I'm still at the stage of walking smack into walls and then realising that I have them... ignoring the wall will come next. ;) Luckily I'm not really that invested in having an audience so if my vids get more and more obtuse, I'll be ok with that as long as I like 'em. :) Kiki tells me to vid for myself. I'm hoping to work out what that looks like some time soon.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I agree 100% with Kiki's advice.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

LOVE. IT.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

♥

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

Maybe AUs would be easier to try if you think of the character in the source as people on popsicle sticks that you can only move certain ways. Think of the scenes as refridgerator magnets that you can move around to create different sentences.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

:D I like that! I can try!

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

There's nothing like looking through 5 seasons of screencaps only to realize the shot doesn't exist. Once you make something up, it's funny to see how many people notice and how many take it as face value (or at least to comment about it).

[lim.livejournal.com]

Hah, me too. IMO, the visual is in the source if it's in your brain--if the show actually exists as an interaction between your brain and the electronic flicker, then whereever the visual originates, it's part of the show. That's what's so exciting to me about stories--they are as infinite and various as we are.

Also I <3 messing around in Photoshop making maps and shit.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

This I agree with entirely. I've found that it's not always possible for me personally to create shots that aren't there, but I'm much freer with that kind of realization of my ideas than I used to be. Now I will usually try to create the shot if the show doesn't give it to me.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

Exactly. :)

I love all the little things that come along with vidding like making vid headers and related texture overlays and that stuff.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

LOL I hate that shit. I don't do it. :p

(I am honestly amused at how different vidders can be. I think it's super cool you guys dig this stuff.)

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

I like the things that can come with vidding. I've written fics off of vids. Sometimes I have entire storylines. I know exactly how the BSG characters in the BSG Blade Runner trailer I made fit into the Blade Runner movie storyline. I know the entire "movie" for I Want You (She's So Heavy) and the conclusion.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

Heh. For me it depends on how well I know the show. I pretty much never have those moments for Buffy or Due South, because I've got the canon almost memorized. But for things I haven't vidded as much, yeah. More often than I'd like.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

I'm more likely to hit a problem like there's not enough of the shot or the shot had some annoying issue (someone moving in the background, or weird camera angle that doesn't fit with the clips either side) or horrible colour (ugh, horrible colour!) than that it isn't there at all. So please don't think I have problemless clip sourcing! I wish it were so... my current vid is kicking my ass with lack of or boring looking source footage.