Vid chat: visualising effects

[bop_radar]

Vidding chats return! :) For those of you new to them, you can check out previous chats here.

This week's topic is visualising effects and it is co-moderated by lim. We'd really love this chat to function as a kind of shared workshop, with people sharing ideas with each other. So if you have a track out there that you're working with or considering working with and would like some shared brainstorming, share it with us here!

Below is an introduction from each of us.

From lim:

So, for me, effects are no different or separate from vidding; they're not an extra, they're not added on, they're an integral part of vidding, so I have a hard time not visualising them. I make visual associations all the time when I listen to music. Music is a mental landscape through which it's possible to move, populated and dynamic: like a holodeck, I spose.

I do a lot of free association when I'm vidding. In the first mp3 I've recorded myself playing through a track and just chunnered on about whatever the music seems to say, and what it looks like to me, what it sparks in my brain. I do this over and over when I'm vidding, and each time I'll get different ideas, visuals, elements to play with.

Audio file: Vidding Visualisation

I've tried to translate that into words, but it's a pretty right-brain activity, so there's a lot of umming and dorkalicious garblement, but I'm hoping that will encourage you to chunner on back to me without fear of being the dorkiest person in the post, haha!

I invite anyone who has a track they're working with to post it and for anyone who has a response, association, or visual, to comment in that thread.

Remember, we're ignoring the lyrics for now. Treat the voice/s as just another instrument, another element in the musical landscape. Listen to the shimmeryness, or growliness, or gloopiness of a voice, not what it's saying in English.

Then tomorrowish, I'm gonna pick a few responses and actually make what we're see-hearing, and I invite anyone who wants to to join in there too.

From Bop:

I'm a pretty odd one to be co-hosting this perhaps, as I am not a vidder who feels comfortable using effects. But hopefully by doing so I'll help others like me dip their toe in the waters. ;)

I don't know about the rest of you, but listening to lim's thoughts here makes me feel a bit less daunted going into the chat. For starters, I realised that I do already do visualisation work myself, even if I tend to think of it only in terms of clip choices (and not what effects to put on clips). It was also really 'normalising' to hear someone else have rambly associations about a track. And yes, it's really hard to put such a right-brain activity into words, but we can all have a go. :)

I don't want to say too much... I just want to say welcome (back) to vid chats, I hope you will all find this a helpful, friendly and constructive 'space'. It takes a bit of courage to share your thoughts with other vidders, I know, but hopefully this is somewhere where we can all reach out to each other a bit. I'm prepared to be a dork if you are. :p And just a reminder that you are very much encouraged here to reply to other commenters, not just the original poster(s)! And you are welcome here any time--there is no 'late' in vid chats.

For this chat in particular, I really encourage you to share your tracks, as lim suggests--how often do we get a chance to brainstorm with other vidders? Perhaps you could use one you've never been quite sure how to tackle (I know I have lots of those!).

If you don't have a track yourself but want to take part, please, PLEASE feel free to listen to other people's tracks and share your associations or ideas--you don't have to be an 'expert' to do this--we're just messing around here, no pressure, ok? And commenting to each other is a great way to take part here, even if it's just a 'hi, that's a really interesting track! made me think of ...'

And if you have any questions or random niggly things you've always wanted to ask about visualising, then feel free to share those in comments too. By all means share any interesting experiences you've had visualising effects too.

There's no rush either--I would really like to encourage people to drop back in here over the next week or so (or any time!). lim and I will pop into the comments as soon as we can, timezones and personal commitments permitting. See you soon! :)

ETA: Update! We shall relaxedly be attempting to make some things resulting from the conversations herein over the next week or so... we encourage anyone who wants to to try making something (for example "haze on the sand" or "red/green blur") and share it. I promise to handhold for anyone who fears their effects thing may look unintentionally tragic. :) We're just playing, yes? :)

Comments

[amnisias.livejournal.com]

*puzzled face*
Which post does this refer to? I think I've missed a part of the discussion....
*grab torchlight and trod of in search of the missing link*

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

It's the audio file lim posted in her introduction. Click where it says "Vidding Visualization".

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

And I've just made that clearer since I'm sure you won't be the only one having troubles. Thanks for the heads up!

[amnisias.livejournal.com]

Good Morning to you! You always up this early on a Sunday?
Yes, I completely missed that link, I'm such a scatterbrain. Anyway, loved the tut, totally made want to see the vid...Wish I could "see" music like that!

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Only when I have to work (alas!). ;)

And yes, I'd love to see the vid also.

[lim.livejournal.com]

It's not translation to me, any more than when you dance you're translating ABBA. I think basically I'm very literal: the piano is askew, let's tip the frame on its side...

If I were dancing to this music, I'd do all funny slapstick stumble-stepping there. Another way to look at it is that the piano is going for one note and stumbling to the two around it, like someone on roller blades trying to walk down stairs. I might cut on the BAM of the piano and shake the frame so it separates into green on the left and red on the right, like something being knocked slightly out of focus, just a blur-out the side and then back into step, and then again. It's all very literal, IMO. All nouns.

Again, you're separating out clip choices from effects, you're limiting and dividing up what you can do before you've even done it. If maybe you could try to move away from that for a moment, and close your eyes, and look at the music without thinking about the video footage, it might make it easier to see what I'm saying. It might not of course, haha!

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Eek, scary! Scary cool though. I love the dancing metaphor because dancing has really helped my vidding a lot. I often use it. However, I have no idea how you made that leap from the stumbling around (which I can see/feel too) to the idea of shaking the frame and separating green and red... I say this only in the interests of helping bridge the gap, but I would visualise the same feeling as internal movement--someone literally stumbling. Or possibly via jump cuts. I guess those are effects? But the idea of changing colour or using blur or something is nothing that would ever occur to me. Maybe because I don't know how to do them, and yet people tell me they learn effects 'because they needed them' to express their vid... so I get a bit confused by that. It's very chicken or egg to me! Learn the effect? Visualise the effect?

I am pleased from this discussion to learn that I do have a visualisation capacity... and it has been liberating to free associate about other people's tracks without knowing the source and therefore without being tied to specific canon clips. I'm interested to see where this goes!

[lim.livejournal.com]

Oh! Well, if you think about the whole concordant note the piano is aiming for splitting up into the discordant notes on either side, that's the same idea as a prism fracturing (whole) white light, like when you focus a lens on yellow and you get patches of red and green on either side?

For me vidding is an extended game of this is like that: the ball is round like the sun which is hot like this candle which is long like this stick which is wooden like this tree which grows like this child which cries like this violin...

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

For me vidding is an extended game of this is like that: the ball is round like the sun which is hot like this candle which is long like this stick which is wooden like this tree which grows like this child which cries like this violin...

This is so delicious that I am positively inspired. I want to try vidding that way! I have a feeling I might need to do it in a non-narrative way, possibly with non-fannish source. Hmm...

[amnisias.livejournal.com]

or me vidding is an extended game of this is like that: Just like free association in psychotherapy...
It sounds intriguing to vid like that and still make sense, but as of yet I can't get my head around how I could follow that principle and not lose my narrative or concept....*in awe*

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

I know that feeling, but can offer some words of encouragement: I think vids that come from that kind of space often end up feeling both more complete and more complex because they tap into the human unconscious. A viewer may not even know why it feels so 'right' but it does. I agree it's pretty scary to move away from a narrative focus as your reason for choosing shots or effects (that's where I am at the moment), but maybe it will open up new things! Maybe you (we) can just try it a little bit to see at first... and maybe your beta can help with checking in to see whether your overall narrative or concept still comes through?

[amnisias.livejournal.com]

Maybe you (we) can just try it a little bit to see at first... and maybe your beta can help with checking in to see whether your overall narrative or concept still comes through?

Sisters in arms, ehe? :) I'm worried that if I do that my beta is going to have me committed.
No, seriously. This is definitely something I want to explore further, but at the moment I feel like I need to solidify my basic skills first. I remember a teacher of mine saying "You need to master the rules before you can break them", he was referring to writing, but I guess the same principle applies here. I need to be able to deliver a clear narrative and have a good grasp of the tools and techniques before I go all "psychedelic" in my vids. But you have much more experience than me, so I can see why you feel more "ready" to delve into something new.

Oh, and thanks a bunch for the the encouragement, always needed!!

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

This is definitely a breakthrough insight for me--I like your idea of 'matching' rather than translating--matching like with like... I do feel that's a paradigm shift for me in approach. Thanks!