Vid chat: visualising effects

[bop_radar]

Vidding chats return! :) For those of you new to them, you can check out previous chats here.

This week's topic is visualising effects and it is co-moderated by lim. We'd really love this chat to function as a kind of shared workshop, with people sharing ideas with each other. So if you have a track out there that you're working with or considering working with and would like some shared brainstorming, share it with us here!

Below is an introduction from each of us.

From lim:

So, for me, effects are no different or separate from vidding; they're not an extra, they're not added on, they're an integral part of vidding, so I have a hard time not visualising them. I make visual associations all the time when I listen to music. Music is a mental landscape through which it's possible to move, populated and dynamic: like a holodeck, I spose.

I do a lot of free association when I'm vidding. In the first mp3 I've recorded myself playing through a track and just chunnered on about whatever the music seems to say, and what it looks like to me, what it sparks in my brain. I do this over and over when I'm vidding, and each time I'll get different ideas, visuals, elements to play with.

Audio file: Vidding Visualisation

I've tried to translate that into words, but it's a pretty right-brain activity, so there's a lot of umming and dorkalicious garblement, but I'm hoping that will encourage you to chunner on back to me without fear of being the dorkiest person in the post, haha!

I invite anyone who has a track they're working with to post it and for anyone who has a response, association, or visual, to comment in that thread.

Remember, we're ignoring the lyrics for now. Treat the voice/s as just another instrument, another element in the musical landscape. Listen to the shimmeryness, or growliness, or gloopiness of a voice, not what it's saying in English.

Then tomorrowish, I'm gonna pick a few responses and actually make what we're see-hearing, and I invite anyone who wants to to join in there too.

From Bop:

I'm a pretty odd one to be co-hosting this perhaps, as I am not a vidder who feels comfortable using effects. But hopefully by doing so I'll help others like me dip their toe in the waters. ;)

I don't know about the rest of you, but listening to lim's thoughts here makes me feel a bit less daunted going into the chat. For starters, I realised that I do already do visualisation work myself, even if I tend to think of it only in terms of clip choices (and not what effects to put on clips). It was also really 'normalising' to hear someone else have rambly associations about a track. And yes, it's really hard to put such a right-brain activity into words, but we can all have a go. :)

I don't want to say too much... I just want to say welcome (back) to vid chats, I hope you will all find this a helpful, friendly and constructive 'space'. It takes a bit of courage to share your thoughts with other vidders, I know, but hopefully this is somewhere where we can all reach out to each other a bit. I'm prepared to be a dork if you are. :p And just a reminder that you are very much encouraged here to reply to other commenters, not just the original poster(s)! And you are welcome here any time--there is no 'late' in vid chats.

For this chat in particular, I really encourage you to share your tracks, as lim suggests--how often do we get a chance to brainstorm with other vidders? Perhaps you could use one you've never been quite sure how to tackle (I know I have lots of those!).

If you don't have a track yourself but want to take part, please, PLEASE feel free to listen to other people's tracks and share your associations or ideas--you don't have to be an 'expert' to do this--we're just messing around here, no pressure, ok? And commenting to each other is a great way to take part here, even if it's just a 'hi, that's a really interesting track! made me think of ...'

And if you have any questions or random niggly things you've always wanted to ask about visualising, then feel free to share those in comments too. By all means share any interesting experiences you've had visualising effects too.

There's no rush either--I would really like to encourage people to drop back in here over the next week or so (or any time!). lim and I will pop into the comments as soon as we can, timezones and personal commitments permitting. See you soon! :)

ETA: Update! We shall relaxedly be attempting to make some things resulting from the conversations herein over the next week or so... we encourage anyone who wants to to try making something (for example "haze on the sand" or "red/green blur") and share it. I promise to handhold for anyone who fears their effects thing may look unintentionally tragic. :) We're just playing, yes? :)

Comments

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

I picked the perfect time to come online after being away for a while. :)

When I see a vid in my head, I see it differently. It's getting the actual footage to look like what I see in my head where effects come in. For a while I worked with Windows Movie Maker, which was very limited and made it difficult to make anything I saw in my head. I used Vegas now and it's somewhat easier. Mostly, my vids don't look the way they do in my head.

I get visual inspiration everywhere. Movies, posters, music videos, youtube, commercials, tv shows, postcards, life, and many other places.

FFFFOUND! (http://ffffound.com/) is a fantastic site for scrolling around and getting inspiration. As is tumblr. They're both massive complilations of random images that people think are awesome.

Now that I've rambled a bit, I have a vid I've been working at on and off for months. I've gone back and forth in my head about if I want to include the effects or if I want to drop them off.

That Day - Michael Pitt (http://www.sendspace.com/file/w33fbc)

[(Anonymous)]

There's something vaguely threatening about the song. The beginning makes me apprehensive, like the quiet before the storm. The music conjures up images of a stark, dry, empty landscape and a feeling of dread. Reminded me of the feel I get from a lot of Cormack McCarthy's novels. The vocal is full of pain and sadness, somewhere between resignation and urgency. It's all the more intense by the lack of words.

Given that's there are no lyrics to "hang" visuals on I would be very inclined to use effects. Also the style of music lends itself well to visual translation. I have to say I wouldn't really dare having a go at it myself, I thinks it's a very daunting task, but I've got no doubt you can pull it off. Can't wait to see it.

[amnisias.livejournal.com]

Sorry, forgot to log in....

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

Excellent thoughts. I've never read Cormack McCarthy, but it sounds like something I'd dig.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

There's a lot of openness here. The arrangement is sparse, spare, a ton of space in it. I could see a desert or outer space equally easily.

The minor key, and the way the instrumentation grows more complex only very gradually, suggests things creeping up, sneaking up on you. Suspense, disturbing things moving in the shadows. The electric guitar is a surprise, as are the voices, but they aren't the kind of surprise that jumps out and shocks you. More like a gradual realization that things are really much worse than you thought.

I see black, blue, brown, gold. Toward the end when there are cymbal sounds, that's something gold and glittery.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

...things creeping up, sneaking up on you. Suspense, disturbing things moving in the shadows.... More like a gradual realization that things are really much worse than you thought.
LOL, you have no idea how well that sums up the plot of the source.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

Hee! Well, it's not terribly surprising, considering it's one of your vids we're talking about. (:

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

It's getting the actual footage to look like what I see in my head where effects come in.
Wow, that's a cool insight for me into your vidding. I am far more pedestrian a vidder--I can summon up clips from the original and paste them together in my brain but that's as far as visualisation goes for me at the moment. It's kind of exciting to be in this discussion though because it's not focused on what is possible--its starting point is free association.

Thanks for linking to the visual inspiration too! And for bringing up how your inspiration comes from diverse other sources. May I ask a bit more about that? How do they inflence you--like how do they translate into your work? Do these things influence the mood or tone you want to capture? the composition of different shots? the colour, maybe? (Sorry this is probably a really dumb or really hard to answer question, but I thought others might be curious too--I think it's very freeing to bring in the idea of inspiration from other sources.)

I will reply about your track in a min! :)

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

I can summon up clips from the original and paste them together in my brain...
I do that too. I have vids completed in my head, but I haven't done the actual editing part.

Thanks for linking to the visual inspiration too!
If there were ever a vidding effects workshop thingy, one exercise would be going to FFFFOUND! or tumblr, looking at the first page, and trying to link at least one of them to a fandom visually.

How do they inflence you--like how do they translate into your work? Do these things influence the mood or tone you want to capture? the composition of different shots? the colour, maybe?
Not a dumb question at all. For example, I made a vid using jumpcuts that felt like the way I remember things sometimes. How I remember certain parts, which are strung together to make the memory. Like the bonfire I was at last week. I remember about 7 things that happened as opposed to the entire night.

I made a vid that tried to capture how I felt lying underneath my Christmas tree while being drunk and looking up at the lights.
Both of my vids for the L word were me working through issues. The inspiration from those vids came from my real life.

I did a fake movie trailer that I was inspired to make because I'd noticed a recurring cross-pollination among my interest in robots. Earlier that year I created a Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles vid, Does Cameron Dream of Electric Sheep?, which was a reference to the book, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, the basis for Blade Runner.

Through conversations with other members of the community, it became apparent that Blade Runner was the obvious choice for a movie trailer to go from. Battlestar Galactica certainly owes a great deal to Blade Runner in terms of theme and idea. They both deal with implanted memories, vague questioning of being human, love, and other aspects. With the Cylon, they have their own culture, faith, justice, ideas, and history. They are not human, but what is so wonderful about being human? Why is it so important that we consider and question whether the Cylon are "more human than human"? As beccatoria has mentioned, the difference between Battlestar Galactica and Blade Runner was the nature of the robots. For her, the existence of replicants never "clouded what it actually meant to be human". I thought about that for a bit because I agreed, yet I think that while the existence of robots don't always call the essence of humanity into question, they at least can make humanity question themselves.

I was still debating what to name the fake trailer. projectjulie sent me a friend request on imeem, which then made me watch everything on her account. I found her season three BSG vblog in which she refers to an aspect of BSG, Cylon Runner, so Bang! there's my title.

I used to make SGA Ronon vids that were inspired by MTV music videos and commericals where I wanted to recreate and play with what they did.

My zombie porn with inspired by fandom itself and the history of zombie movies.

I also made a BSG vid as a reply to heyiya's BSG meta and vid playlist when I was reminded of my own personal reading between Battlestar Galactica and Blade Runner. "Lum's More Human Than Human is part of what sparked my own obsession with the Cylon. Blade Runner was one of the first movies I remember watching as a child. I was so engaged by the ideas of "robots" as a child. The idea that they could be so similar to humans, but not be considered on the same level blew my young mind. So when I watched Lum's vid that used the White Zombie track that was based on Blade Runner, my love was crystallized." Within that same thread, we discussed the shared consciousness and individualism among the Cylon.

Rambling lastly, the girl or the weapon? was based on a girl I was teaching that reminded me so much of River right down to the dress and combat boots.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

vidding effects workshop thingy, one exercise would be going to FFFFOUND! or tumblr, looking at the first page, and trying to link at least one of them to a fandom visually.
Ohh, we should have one!!! And we should do that! It's a totally different approach for me but that would be the appeal.

I made a vid that tried to capture how I felt lying underneath my Christmas tree while being drunk and looking up at the lights.
Wow! That is so cool! I feel so tied to fixed things in comparison. I mean I struggle with AU work so bad you would not believe... let alone totally freeform self-focussed vidding! It's like my brain actually CANNOT make up something that doesn't already exist.

Thank you for sharing your associations and connections that led to some of your vids--I guess some of them (e.g. Blade Runner) are more obvious to viewers than others, which might be more internal to you (like the girl you taught).

One thing I realise I do is draw heavily on emotional associations--like, I draw on my own life a lot where I can because empathy with a character can provide me with the 'why?' of shot selection or treatment. But it rarely leads to effects and I guess that makes sense because it's not really about the vidding and it's not really bringing anything that didn't already exist--it's just shining a spotlight on what does. If I was to be inspired by art, it might be more likely to translate into effects... that's interesting to me because it helps me understand a little more why I lack this 'effects' brain some people seem to have. It would make sense that I don't as I'm not creative at all and have no understanding of visual art in any form outside of vidding--I really only understand the written word. Rather than feeling that as a lack it's actually helpful to know that that's just not my thing.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

Ohh, we should have one!!! And we should do that! It's a totally different approach for me but that would be the appeal.
That could be interesting...

I mean I struggle with AU work so bad you would not believe... let alone totally freeform self-focussed vidding! It's like my brain actually CANNOT make up something that doesn't already exist.
Hhehehe, I'm all, "whatevs, needz moar zombies" and throw a bunch of AU stuff in. It might help to disengage it mentally from fannishness too. Like you're not making a vid for Battlestar Galactica, but trying to tell a different story using that footage.

But it rarely leads to effects and I guess that makes sense because it's not really about the vidding and it's not really bringing anything that didn't already exist--it's just shining a spotlight on what does.
I tend to think of effects as another way to get the point across. Either the POV or a progression or anything else. The way some people use motion or coloring to their meanings to the audience.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

It might help to disengage it mentally from fannishness too. Like you're not making a vid for Battlestar Galactica, but trying to tell a different story using that footage.

This has become increasingly true for me. I used to vid exclusively from a place of fannish passion, but now I'd say that at least half of the time I'm looking at the show as fodder for my ideas. I still love the shows or I wouldn't vid them, but I tend to be waaaaay more intellectual and waaaaay less emotional in my process than I used to be. Fannish love isn't my primary motivator anymore; the urge to tell a new story or explore an interesting theme is what's driving me. The show is raw material; the vid is me.

[lim.livejournal.com]

Wow, I'm couldn't feel more differently. I TOTALLY vid from a place of fannish passion. More power to you and following your own way, but I would find that utterly miserably sadmaking. Woe!

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

Aww! It's not sad for me at all; I get tremendous joy and exhilaration from vidding, regardless of the level of fannish love I'm feeling at the time. It's the happiness of creative expression that's revving my engines now, the joy of MAKING SOMETHING -- especially when the work is going well.

I do sometimes miss the gonadal drive I used to have when I was writing fic, but overall I find vidding much more satisfying than writing. I don't think I'd trade.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Mmm, that is soo interesting! I suspected that there were some vidders who didn't vid from a place of fannish passion primarily! I think I'm shifting into that space myself (maybe because I'm quite fandomless at the moment but still want to vid?) but it's kind of scary for me... it feels like the vids (well the potential nonexistent yet vids) are a bit more 'me', and for a non-creative person that's scary. When I work from a place of fannishness I feel secure in my vision--if I translate my own fannish passion I'm on track. Working from a more personal place feels structureless (maybe?) to me. It's very encouraging to hear from those that do it though.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

I feel deeply connected and fannish when I vid, but I can see how a disconnect could help other people. Everyone's brain is wired differently and thinking about vidding in another way might help to unleash creativity.

[amnisias.livejournal.com]

If there were ever a vidding effects workshop thingy, one exercise would be going to FFFFOUND! or tumblr, looking at the first page, and trying to link at least one of them to a fandom visually.

I have to say I find the whole workshop approach very helpful to get discussions (and more importantly, my brain juices) going, even if things then go into an other direction. But a common starting point is a good idea.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

I didn't think of it as a real possibility, but now I'm thinking it could be cool.

[lim.livejournal.com]

Doooo ittttt. *grins*

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

...I might just have to now that I keep thinking about it.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

:D :D I would like that!

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

It sounds fun and interesting. I might do it.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Wow, what a freaky track! (It fits you very well. *g*)

The start makes me imagine a dry, dusty, barren landscape. Then when that twangy refrain starts up at 0.20 and repeats over and over again, I sort of imagine someone staggering along the road. I also, and I mean this in a really non-judgemental way, sort of associate it with someone who is mentally ill in some way? it repeats and repeats in a way that suggests someone can't get out of the mental loop in their head. That suggests disordered thinking to me, and it became actively distressing to me by the 2 minute mark because it goes on so long. I felt like screaming 'do something else!!!'

Then the introduction of other elements is really interesting--at first they are a relief from the main refrain, but they really just compete with it or try and drown it out and they are quite distressing in their own right. I picture people rattling chains, and I'm sort of picturing a distorted community at this stage. It reminds me of the Patrick Ness novels I read recently where one of the key ideas is 'noise'--that everyone can hear each others thoughts and that there is this cacophany constantly. It's an ugly and terrifying 'space' to live in.

After being quite distressing it does build to some kind of resolution, but a resolution that never really sees the elements blend together--there's a feeling of separatness still that makes me still feel lonely or disturbed.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

It's one of the tracks I've wanted to vid, but never have. It's been on the back burner until it matched with the perfect source and concept for me.

sort of associate it with someone who is mentally ill in some way? it repeats and repeats in a way that suggests someone can't get out of the mental loop in their head. That suggests disordered thinking to me, and it became actively distressing to me by the 2 minute mark because it goes on so long. I felt like screaming 'do something else!!!'
LOL, that's perfect. The song matches ridiculously well to the source going from the interpretations and impressions of the music. I had originally tried to edit the song down, but it was impossible because taking out any of it ruined the entire song. It's a finely constructed piece of music and when I took out a section or shortened something, it fell apart and the flow was interrupted.

[lim.livejournal.com]

I'm with the others--the desert, brown and gold, a deep burnt orange and a hazy blur across the frame from the heat. Lots of fire, the sun, anger, desolation, screaming. Squinting eyes from the intense heat--blowouts of white, tons of glow intensifying as the vocals climax, lots of circling, lots of extreme viewpoint jumps--from birdseye, to massive closeup, to a back-view, switching abruptly on the pop of the melodic strings.

When at 3:16 the breakbeat tries to start up and then gets clogged up in the melody it's like a runner trying to break away and being dragged back down, their feet tangling, drowning in many clawing hands.