Jamie/Dollhouse jitters

[bop_radar]

So... confession... I can't bring myself to watch Jamie in Dollhouse. I'm totally nailbiting about it. I was so upset when he got cast because the idea of watching him play a misogynist makes me shudder... he's a really good actor, I'm sure he'll carry it off, and I just really don't know if I can deal with that. *is a massive emotional coward*

So, people that know me well? Will it make Bop :((? (do NOT tell me how hot he is, my f'list is managing to convey that quite nicely already and it's still not enough to make me watch it...)

Sigh. It's so much easier to watch him in Law and Order. *missing my Matt/Alesha*

In other news... *glances at f'list* ... WOW that is a lot of wank! I'd forgotten what it was like when the shows are actually on. ;) But even BSG is still bringing the wank. Amazing! Still, SV scoops the wank awards as usual... bless.

ETA: Lots of spoilers for Dollhouse 2.1 in the comments.

Comments

[duskwillow.livejournal.com]

I've watched 2x01, and I don't think he ends up looking so much a misogynist as much as a bad guy in general. Can't tell you more without spoiling you. I found other parts of episode a lot more disturbing. :)

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Oh ok... heh, well, I guess I'd rather he was disconnected from the most disturbing elements, but yeah still have to brace myself for Dollhouse squick.

[mskatej.livejournal.com]

He's a master criminal and he is violent at one point towards Echo, but he's also very charming. Also, I won't say he's not a misogynist but that's not his defining trait. I liked him, but if you only like seeing Jamie play heroic characters then maybe avoid.

What wank is happening in Smallville? The usual?

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, I don't care if he's a bad guy. I *DO* care if he's a misogynist though. And every guy on Dollhouse is in one way or another. :/ I'd promised myself I would quit that show after last season so I'm probably just experiencing a bit of resentment at watching again.

Yeah, the usual. I'll email you.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

I have missed the wank, thank goodness. I didn't read Bamber's character as a misogynist (above TV standard, if you know what I mean); he was a bad guy who used violence and had a traditional "let me take care of all business for you" attitude, but nothing at all like, say, Matt Keeslar's character, and not even like Tahmoh Penikett's character.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's reassuring! Less misogynistic than at least a couple of the other male characters?! On DH? That's a plus, yay!

[cherylad.livejournal.com]

Honestly? It was more than a bit jarring, but it was a very short section where he was bad with her. I don't think it would color your opinion of Jamie.

I'm just meh about the whole show. Too LFN for me frankly. *shrugs*

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Oh, I've watched every ep of DH. I don't like the show though. So yeah... I was going to give up watching but then they cast Jamie. :(

[workerbee73.livejournal.com]

I agree with the comments above. Not so much mysogynistic as general bad guy sociopath dude. Actually, he brings some nuance to the role that I'm sure wasn't written in, and it's to his credit.

Also agree that the premise and non-logic of the plot is far more disturbing than JB's character. And it's not a great show, imo. But it was fun and interesting to see Jamie play a baddie. : )

Also? Loves your icon. To tiny, tiny bits.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Oh thank you! :D

I've watched every ep of Dollhouse so far and it's a struggle. I guess maybe I'm just having to psych myself to return to that space.

[frelling-tralk.livejournal.com]

I thought the role they gave him was a pretty one-note one, although he did do a nice job with what he had to work with. And he gets violent with Echo, but it seemed to be more about being a violent and suspicious criminal in general, rather than a wife-beater or misogynist. Just my impressions

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Thanks! This is helpful!

[redteekal.livejournal.com]

Somehow I kept thinking he was channeling Gaius Baltar but it could have been the British accent that threw me. Didn't come across as particularly misogynistic to me - more of a general all round bad guy. And yeah I found other parts of the episode far more problematic than who Bamber portrayed.

SV wank? Where? Dammit I always miss that stuff.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah, the whole show is problematic for me--I go into these massive emotional and intellectual struggles with it every time I watch.

Hee, well, it's not really that great... just shippers screaming at each other as usual, really.

[bradcpu.livejournal.com]

I think the negatives you're hearing are mostly a symptom of people's attitudes about the series as opposed to this specific episode, or this character, or the actor's role on it. People see "Dollhouse" and expect the worst. Personally, I thought it was a well-played character and a very good episode in general. I often seem to have the minority opinion, though.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Mm, no, I think it's just my own angst. ;) Mostly I was hearing 'oh my god! Jamie so hot!' from my f'list, which wasn't very helpful in the mental/emotional preparation stakes. ;) I didn't really *want* him to be hot in Dollhouse, because hot misogynists upset me. :(

I just need to get over the jitters and watch. I know there are people with false preconceptions about Dollhouse, but I've watched every episode and struggle with it mentally and emotionally every time. I think this is really just me having to mentally prepare for entering that emotional place again. Apologies to you, Kiki and other DH-fans: I do try with the show, really!

[bradcpu.livejournal.com]

There's no need to apologize for having your own opinion! I think everyone has the right to their own feelings. Hopefully you agree. :)

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Of course I agree! I know you see it through a different lens than I do, so to speak--of course I think you have a right to that. (I just always feel like a killjoy tosser for having my own issues with something friends like.) I wish it was unproblematic for me: I would so love to love a show with Eliza as the lead. ;)

[abluegirl.livejournal.com]

The role is a bit odd, especially since it is such a jarring contrast to Lee and his relationship with Kara. He's very good in it, but still, jarring. I don't blame you, to be honest.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Thanks! One person who doesn't blame me. ;)

[shopfront.livejournal.com]

To echo a lot of the people above me, I don't think he comes across as particularly misogynistic as much as a very charming bad guy who'll smile at you just before he shoves a knife in your belly for displeasing him, with all the associated controlling of everyone around him and violent overreactions to perceived mistakes that goes with it. He is actually very, very charming for a great deal of his screen time though. Not the kind of evil character that makes you want to claw their face off through your computer screen for being an offensive jackarse at all, really.

He held a very SV!Lex quality for me, to give you a better reference point. I was happily watching him saunter across my screen looking so lovely I wanted to coo at him, despite the fact I knew he was going to very calmly and happily do horrific things to make me want to claw his face off on prinicipal at some point because he was our bad guy.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Hee hee! I like your no-face-clawing description. ;) Cooing is amusing!

[asta77.livejournal.com]

While I think the show, in general, is misogynistic, Jamie's character, Martin, never struck me as being a misogynist. There is a specific reason why I feel this to be the case, but it is spoilery. Martin is violent towards Echo at one point, but he's playing the bad guy and he had a similar violent reaction with a male character.

My main problem with Martin is the character was very thinly drawn. Jamie did the most with the material he was given, but there wasn't much there to work with. I really would have appreciated some backstory as to how such a handsome, intelligent, charismatic guy ended up in the line of work he did. Actually, I created my own backstory last night!

I enjoyed seeing Jamie tackle a different type of role and I do think it was helpful for him career-wise.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Oh good, and I don't care about spoilers. All the one-ep characters on Dollhouse are thinly drawn--well, that's true on most shows, really.

I'm glad if it was good for him career-wise.

[proggrrl.livejournal.com]

He wasn't really playing a misogynist, IMHO. Just a bad guy. A very sexy bad guy with a brit accent. Watch it, you'll enjoy the change.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

As long as he's not a sexy misogynist... ok!

[proggrrl.livejournal.com]

LOL...well he is a sexy baddie who beats on Echo. But if you've seen any of the early S2 promo ads you know that Echo gives as good as she gets. Added bonus: wedding night sexah time scene! ;-)

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Mmm. *face falls* I do not like the idea of sexah times with dolls! It's rape. :(( This sounds horrible.

[proggrrl.livejournal.com]

The dolls are more like spies and hookers, combined, for me. I know some fans have big issues with the rapeyness. I don't see it that way. To each her own of course.

This engagement featuring Jamie is actually crime-fighting/FBI related and Echo's personality here thinks she is a spy.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Sorry. Yeah, I fall into the considering-it-rape category. I have very strong feelings and issues about it--and I say this having watched every episode. I respect that you don't agree about the rape. But I'm glad I know--now I know I'm right to brace myself for the worst.

Sigh.

I should have just trusted my feelings in the first place and not asked anyone.

[(Anonymous)]

Not to bust in, but I came across this post looking for some SV meta and had to comment (hope this is okay).
I too belong in the category of considering it rape, since its not the dolls' actual personalities and therefore they're not aware of what they're doing.
But just to let you know (and this is very spoilery so don't read if you don't want to be totally spoiled!!)
*
*
*
*
Jamie's character isn't aware that she's a doll and thinks she's actually in love with him, so just regarding the sex I don't think the fault lies at his with his character. Don't know if that changes anything for you. I'm not a big fan of the show, the squick factor is too bad for me on the whole but I took more offense to Tahmohs character...

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow! OK, that makes it a LOT better for me. I don't care one whit about spoilers for this show. I do care about watching an actor I love play a rapist. (And yes, the dolls do not have free will--that's the clear difference for me between them and 'normal' prostitutes. IMHO the Dollhouse is human rights abuse.) OK, his character doesn't know she's a doll. That's better. Phew! My biggest fear was that he was knowingly a client.

The squick is really bad for me... almost everything about it is problematic in my eyes, and Tahmoh's character DEFinitely is.

Sorry to derail your SV meta search briefly. Thanks for the reassurance!

[thedothatgirl.livejournal.com]

Ditto what Brad said.

I have seen comments about Jamie's accent though not being 'good' which was amusing, seeing as it is his own. I thought he was more 'bad guy' than misogynist and handled the role well.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

LOL. Poor Jamie's real accent! I love his real accent. Actually hearing that he gets to use it for once makes me more inclined to watch...

[thedothatgirl.livejournal.com]

You should - he does deadly and charming beautifully.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

Summer is big for wank, especially towards the end when the shows haven't been on for a while and everyone gets restless. Usually it takes a while for new season wank to start. Smallville must be jumpstarting this year with the wank. ;)

Bamber was great in the episode. It's the first time I've seen him in anything besides BSG. He plays a "bad guy," so take what you want from that. I wouldn't characterize him first and foremost as a misogynist.

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
I
S
H
On a shallow note, the fight scene was cool and worth the pirce of admission.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Smallville definitely jumpstarted! The shippers were giving each other computer viruses before the season even began... But I see there's Merlin wank and BSG wank as well.

Hee, I don't care about spoilers for this show! :) Fight scene? Yay.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

Ok, yeah, Dollhouse having a fight scene isn't so much of a spoiler as it is a given for an episode. Spoilers are sensitive BSNS.

P.S. Spoiler for Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Buffy and Angel get together!

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

LOL, well I probably would care if I was more into the show. ;)

Buffy and Angel get together!
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! As long as Angel doesn't go bad afterwards I might just cope. :p

[fleegull.livejournal.com]

He wasn't a misogynist as much as an all around bad guy, I don't know if that helps.

Is there SV wank? I want to know, it can never hold a candle to SPN wank but it can still be entertaining.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

I think it helps.

Yeah, there's some shipper madness from fairly predictable suspects. They did give each other computer viruses before the season even began, I believe, does that figure in the candle-stakes?!

[fleegull.livejournal.com]

The mutual virus thing is a new twist, at least it is to me. That's a lot of work for a ship war.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

LOL icon!

[latrex.livejournal.com]

I think you'll be okay. I was a fan of Matt Keeslar from Middleman and I really wish I hadn't seen his Dollhouse episode, but this didn't ping my squicks in the same way at all. I don't know how much you care about spoilers, but just to be safe.

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

JB's character isn't knowingly sleeping with a doll, which mitigated alot of the squick factor for me at least.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Yup, same. That episode of Matt Keeslar's was one of the most disgusting things I have ever seen portrayed on television. Good to know--I don't think this will ping my squick as much.