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bop_radarAre you disappointed in BSG's finale? Wondering how all the promise of the mini-series and Seasons 1 and 2 drained away into a cross between Days of our (Cylon) Lives and Angels in America?
Maybe you're feeling too scarred right now to ever trust a TV series again (understandable). But that's a great pity because there IS a show, doing it all right.
Ten ways in which Sarah Connor Chronicles and Battlestar Galactica are similar
1. The central premise involves an apocalypse in which most of humanity dies. The remainder of humanity struggle to survive and form a resistance against the machines.
2. It has kickass and complex female characters.
3. Both shows have male characters that aren't just a stereotype of alpha masculinity.
4. Hot (killer) robot chicks.
5. Both shows are about trying to break out of a cycle of violence and destruction.
6. In both shows humanity is forced into compromise with machines in order to survive.
7. The degree to which machines can become human is explored on both shows.
8. Family loyalty, the value of human life and the natural nihilism that comes from facing death on a daily basis are at the heart of both shows.
9. Both are action-based, but contain extensive philosophical or political material as well.
10. Both have 'destiny' couples, whose love outlasts/overcomes the tragic world in which they exist.
ETA: They also both have scores by Bear McCreary.
Ten ways in which Sarah Connor Chronicles does it better than Battlestar Galactica
1. The female characters remain central to the narrative, remain complex, are not all killed, raped or reduced to stereotypical gender roles, or given the 'love/a baby fulfils them' plot. Also, they don't just mimic male 'strength'. While Sarah is an action hero in the traditional sense, there is also a well explored theme of the female 'heroic' strengths of self-sacrifice and enduring great physical suffering.
2. Likewise the male characters show a range of behaviours and strengths, including the capacity to express emotion and, indeed, to shoulder the emotional burdens of others (perhaps considered primarily a female strength). The male leader of the resistance is not a cranky bigoted old man, but an emotional teenage boy who is both incredibly strong and incredibly fragile.
3. The compromise with machines is well explored. There are those that think it is the wrong idea and who think that the leadership is blinkered, self-interested and arrogant. The resolution of that plot does not reduce it to 'leadership right, naysayers bad' and it respects the audience's intelligence by showing both sides of the equation fairly. Also the leaders are continually questioning themselves--not just doing so once and then assuming that that theme is done and dusted.
4. The religious elements are handled as a matter of personal belief, though in no way dismissed. Ellison is a believer and his religious struggles form a strong narrative thread. His religion is alive to him, but NOT LITERAL. Sorry: my own prejudices show here, but I do feel that there's a far more subtle exploration of religious issues on Sarah Connor. The fact that one human character continues to believe in God despite the apocalypse is a fascinating aspect of the show and far more interesting to me than 'angels are real!'
5. Cameron is the best exploration I can EVER imagine of a robot that is becoming human. Even more so because the show never definitively shows that she is. The question 'at what point will machines have become us?' is raised but both arguments are explored. Cameron appears to be displaying emotion of a sort at times... but is the appearance of emotion the same as 'real' emotion? Is the mimicry of beauty the same as beauty? She questions her own identity: does that mean she has a 'self'? And that's before we even consider her origins as a 'real' human. It's all so fascinating. Also, she's played by the amazing Summer Glau and is both stunning and sexy and an AWESOME action hero. Really, what more could anyone want? Cameron > all the Cylons on BSG.
6. The action ... well, I do love space battles so this is hard for me, but the action in Sarah Connor is really well done. In fact I'd say it's the best true 'action' series on television. It cops some crit sometimes for not having enough action in some eps--that's because the writers believe you can't just revel in violence, you have to also show the consequences and the complexities that come from human life being destroyed. Does that not sound BRILLIANT?
7. BSG often gets admiration for its nihilism and 'epic tragedy'. Well I think Sarah Connor is the show that does true nihilism and tragedy. BSG's was so often just superficial 'shock value' stuff sugarcoated with some very traditional heroism. In Sarah Connor the characters can never escape from their destinies, even as they fight to change time. It doesn't wallow in this but rather shows the struggle to fight (and hope) in the face of all that. The nihilism is more a cumulative experience for the audience as they think through all the complexities and try to work out for themselves what the 'right' way is... and realise there isn't one.
8. The pigeon metaphor in SCC is much creepier and much more interesting. *snerk* (How much did I wish Cameron would show up and snap that BSG pigeons neck?!)
9. The 'destiny' couples really do have a tragic ending--if you've got a tragedy kink, this will appeal to you--and yet they're also very fulfilling as 'ships'. Kyle and Sarah had only a short time together, but their love imbues the whole show through the writers respect for that original canonical relationship. Cameron and John are the machine/human couple, and even though I don't ship them the tension between them is amazing. And maybe it's just me, but I find in Jesse/Derek many things that I wished Kara/Lee had been but wasn't in the end--essentially they're both soldiers, with different but complementary skillsets, they work together and love each other, they 'have each others' backs'. Yet they are caught up in something so much bigger than themselves and they therefore find themselves on opposing sides of a political debate. Yes, they're a tragic couple but tragic in a meaningful sense, not with stupid alternaships and orchestrated angst.
10. Most of all, SCC is written by people that respect both their audience and the source material. They strive so hard to do justice to the concepts and they never, ever dumb things down for the audience. They often pull out surprising moments (as they did this week) but not in order to shock the audience--rather, they've been plotted in advance and prove to be a satisfying culmination of many threads coming together. The writers clearly have a plan (even when the first season got aborted!) and are steadily working towards it. Some episodes are more interesting than others, but overall the series has got better and better rather than worse and worse. And it remembers its own canon (the Andy Good reference this week was so poignant!) and doesn't just retcon. As a viewer you have the sense that the writers have a clear understanding of where each character is 'at' emotionally--they're not just randomly playing with them like puppets. They respect their characters.
Obviously Terminator's not everyone's taste, I wasn't really sure it was mine to begin with--to be honest I started watching for Cameron to begin with but have grown to love all the characters. I've found the show really rewards rewatching. And I do honestly believe it tells a similar story to BSG's but in a more sophisticated way--its control of its own metaphors, narrative and characters is, I believe, objectively more successful even in its 'unfinished' (and possibly to receive early termination!) state. Do check it out if you think it sounds interesting. :)
ETA ((((((HUGS))))))) to BSG fandom
ETA2 Yes, I am going to review SCC 2.19 (but not the BSG finale because it doesn't deserve thought). I just needed to get this post out of my system first! ;)
Maybe you're feeling too scarred right now to ever trust a TV series again (understandable). But that's a great pity because there IS a show, doing it all right.
Ten ways in which Sarah Connor Chronicles and Battlestar Galactica are similar
1. The central premise involves an apocalypse in which most of humanity dies. The remainder of humanity struggle to survive and form a resistance against the machines.
2. It has kickass and complex female characters.
3. Both shows have male characters that aren't just a stereotype of alpha masculinity.
4. Hot (killer) robot chicks.
5. Both shows are about trying to break out of a cycle of violence and destruction.
6. In both shows humanity is forced into compromise with machines in order to survive.
7. The degree to which machines can become human is explored on both shows.
8. Family loyalty, the value of human life and the natural nihilism that comes from facing death on a daily basis are at the heart of both shows.
9. Both are action-based, but contain extensive philosophical or political material as well.
10. Both have 'destiny' couples, whose love outlasts/overcomes the tragic world in which they exist.
ETA: They also both have scores by Bear McCreary.
Ten ways in which Sarah Connor Chronicles does it better than Battlestar Galactica
1. The female characters remain central to the narrative, remain complex, are not all killed, raped or reduced to stereotypical gender roles, or given the 'love/a baby fulfils them' plot. Also, they don't just mimic male 'strength'. While Sarah is an action hero in the traditional sense, there is also a well explored theme of the female 'heroic' strengths of self-sacrifice and enduring great physical suffering.
2. Likewise the male characters show a range of behaviours and strengths, including the capacity to express emotion and, indeed, to shoulder the emotional burdens of others (perhaps considered primarily a female strength). The male leader of the resistance is not a cranky bigoted old man, but an emotional teenage boy who is both incredibly strong and incredibly fragile.
3. The compromise with machines is well explored. There are those that think it is the wrong idea and who think that the leadership is blinkered, self-interested and arrogant. The resolution of that plot does not reduce it to 'leadership right, naysayers bad' and it respects the audience's intelligence by showing both sides of the equation fairly. Also the leaders are continually questioning themselves--not just doing so once and then assuming that that theme is done and dusted.
4. The religious elements are handled as a matter of personal belief, though in no way dismissed. Ellison is a believer and his religious struggles form a strong narrative thread. His religion is alive to him, but NOT LITERAL. Sorry: my own prejudices show here, but I do feel that there's a far more subtle exploration of religious issues on Sarah Connor. The fact that one human character continues to believe in God despite the apocalypse is a fascinating aspect of the show and far more interesting to me than 'angels are real!'
5. Cameron is the best exploration I can EVER imagine of a robot that is becoming human. Even more so because the show never definitively shows that she is. The question 'at what point will machines have become us?' is raised but both arguments are explored. Cameron appears to be displaying emotion of a sort at times... but is the appearance of emotion the same as 'real' emotion? Is the mimicry of beauty the same as beauty? She questions her own identity: does that mean she has a 'self'? And that's before we even consider her origins as a 'real' human. It's all so fascinating. Also, she's played by the amazing Summer Glau and is both stunning and sexy and an AWESOME action hero. Really, what more could anyone want? Cameron > all the Cylons on BSG.
6. The action ... well, I do love space battles so this is hard for me, but the action in Sarah Connor is really well done. In fact I'd say it's the best true 'action' series on television. It cops some crit sometimes for not having enough action in some eps--that's because the writers believe you can't just revel in violence, you have to also show the consequences and the complexities that come from human life being destroyed. Does that not sound BRILLIANT?
7. BSG often gets admiration for its nihilism and 'epic tragedy'. Well I think Sarah Connor is the show that does true nihilism and tragedy. BSG's was so often just superficial 'shock value' stuff sugarcoated with some very traditional heroism. In Sarah Connor the characters can never escape from their destinies, even as they fight to change time. It doesn't wallow in this but rather shows the struggle to fight (and hope) in the face of all that. The nihilism is more a cumulative experience for the audience as they think through all the complexities and try to work out for themselves what the 'right' way is... and realise there isn't one.
8. The pigeon metaphor in SCC is much creepier and much more interesting. *snerk* (How much did I wish Cameron would show up and snap that BSG pigeons neck?!)
9. The 'destiny' couples really do have a tragic ending--if you've got a tragedy kink, this will appeal to you--and yet they're also very fulfilling as 'ships'. Kyle and Sarah had only a short time together, but their love imbues the whole show through the writers respect for that original canonical relationship. Cameron and John are the machine/human couple, and even though I don't ship them the tension between them is amazing. And maybe it's just me, but I find in Jesse/Derek many things that I wished Kara/Lee had been but wasn't in the end--essentially they're both soldiers, with different but complementary skillsets, they work together and love each other, they 'have each others' backs'. Yet they are caught up in something so much bigger than themselves and they therefore find themselves on opposing sides of a political debate. Yes, they're a tragic couple but tragic in a meaningful sense, not with stupid alternaships and orchestrated angst.
10. Most of all, SCC is written by people that respect both their audience and the source material. They strive so hard to do justice to the concepts and they never, ever dumb things down for the audience. They often pull out surprising moments (as they did this week) but not in order to shock the audience--rather, they've been plotted in advance and prove to be a satisfying culmination of many threads coming together. The writers clearly have a plan (even when the first season got aborted!) and are steadily working towards it. Some episodes are more interesting than others, but overall the series has got better and better rather than worse and worse. And it remembers its own canon (the Andy Good reference this week was so poignant!) and doesn't just retcon. As a viewer you have the sense that the writers have a clear understanding of where each character is 'at' emotionally--they're not just randomly playing with them like puppets. They respect their characters.
Obviously Terminator's not everyone's taste, I wasn't really sure it was mine to begin with--to be honest I started watching for Cameron to begin with but have grown to love all the characters. I've found the show really rewards rewatching. And I do honestly believe it tells a similar story to BSG's but in a more sophisticated way--its control of its own metaphors, narrative and characters is, I believe, objectively more successful even in its 'unfinished' (and possibly to receive early termination!) state. Do check it out if you think it sounds interesting. :)
ETA ((((((HUGS))))))) to BSG fandom
ETA2 Yes, I am going to review SCC 2.19 (but not the BSG finale because it doesn't deserve thought). I just needed to get this post out of my system first! ;)
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no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 05:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 06:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 06:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 06:11 am (UTC)The bird is the word.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 06:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 06:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 06:57 am (UTC)(And imho, BSG deserves less.)
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 06:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 06:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 06:51 am (UTC)I agree that this week's SCC kicked almighty ass, though. BEST SHOW ON TV, hands down.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 06:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 06:55 am (UTC)But yeah HOW GOOD WAS LAST NIGHT'S EP?! WOW!
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 07:21 am (UTC)I'm glad you enjoy it. It's good to see you happy about TV. :-)
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 08:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 07:36 am (UTC)Also, I am REALLY going to miss the person we lost this week!
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 08:55 pm (UTC)I will have to check out your questions post!
And yes... eeeeeeeek! I can't quite write about the loss we had this week which is why there is this post not a review one yet. But I will! It was an AMAZING ep.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 07:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 08:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 09:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 10:07 am (UTC)And I don't have the time to catch up on two seasons at the moment, would I still get it, if I started with season 2? Or would I have missed too much of the build up?
BSG finale? never happened.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 08:57 pm (UTC)I think you'd still get something out of the show if you watched it now but it definitely works much better with build up (alas!).
Yup, TOTAL DENIAL is your friend where the BSG finale is concerned.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 10:15 am (UTC)Baby!Lee with the flowers and pigeon was adorable, and despite the nothing he's been given to do, he looked prettier than ever. I loved the blank, horrified look he gave Baltar when he started yelling to everyone about Kara's non-alive status. And it was good to see Zack, but do we need it rubbed in that he's a second choice for everyone? Not to mention the 'daughter' thing said by Admiral Excess, just to give more people fuel for saying it's sick that they ever fancied each other.
And why oh why start a new Mission this late on? Ho well, I'll find out this evening when I've got more chance to drink away the pain :D
"Sarah Connor" is a great show, but I haven't quite found my pet yet. The cast are ace, but no-one quite leaps up at me and begs so far. I do love the conversations between JohnRobot and Ellison about why it's naughty to kill people.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 09:01 pm (UTC)There is no Lee equivalent on SCC, it's true. I don't know if I'll ever find a Lee equivalent anywhere... :(
no subject
Date: 2009-03-23 06:13 pm (UTC)Despite all that bitching, there is no way I am ready to lose Lee forever. This is pathetic!
OMG HE DOESN'T ACTUALLY DIE OR OMGOMG WORSE BECOME A TRAITOR DOES HE? NO DON'T TELL ME ARGH.
I have had one or two other Lees in my life, and the last one I loved as much had a very satisfactory arc and good ending, so my faith in true fictional character love is still strong.
BUT I MEAN NO LEE EVER?
no subject
Date: 2009-03-24 07:30 am (UTC)ME NEITHER. I am in total DENIAL LAND re. that reality! ;) I say we need to start a Lee Adama Forever club and go live in it...
In terms of what to expect... I'd say it's what we've already seen him get from the series/writers/RDM, but MORE SO.
the last one I loved as much had a very satisfactory arc and good ending, so my faith in true fictional character love is still strong.
Ohh, that is yayful! Can I ask who it was?! I had one other but he exists in a book series and I snobbily think that's the reason his arc was far more satisfying. And also it was eight ENORMOUS novels and he was the central character which therefore means there was more of him. :D
THERE MUST ALWAYS BE LEE!
no subject
Date: 2009-03-24 10:55 am (UTC)And there are so few introverted slattern-loving political geeky fighter pilots out there, especially pretty ones.
I'm very shy about my Other Pet, because he was the centre of a vicious fandom war and was basically the Baltar of his show. Going through that was like having millions of people (including a show writer ffs) telling you that liking Baltar made you genocidal. Man, I'm such a drama queen.
Well, he "died" about 5 years ago and
no subject
Date: 2009-03-24 04:33 pm (UTC)there are so few introverted slattern-loving political geeky fighter pilots out there, especially pretty ones
I know, right?! THEY MUST BE CELEBRATED, where they exist! ;)
Spike? I wasn't in online fandom at the time, but I loved him! (If I've guessed right.)
no subject
Date: 2009-03-25 10:09 pm (UTC)A LEELJ! WHERE WE JUST LEE ABOUT LEE'S LEENESS ALL DAY!
. I'm such a div about it, especially after all the Lex!love out there these days, but one of the writers compared us to "women who write to serial killers in prison". The fanwars were astounding because huge chunks of the fandom were outraged he was getting bumped up over more established actors (in a Sam/Lee way, I suppose). Others were upset because they were "ruining" a good villain. I never fancied him as such, he was just my Pet. And then he died a big hero. Twice, bwa ha ha :D
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 01:30 pm (UTC)I know! That entire scene, and then the one afterwards with John, made me see 'more' of Derek. Aspects of his personality, of his past, came so much more sharply into focus. I've never been much of a Derek fan, but I think this episode changed that.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 09:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 02:08 pm (UTC)I can't for the life of me work out why I'm not lapping the whole bloody thing up, but it just doesn't hit my fannish buttons. I like SCC just fine, but... Honestly, I think I'm just about ripe for a
showguilty pleasure with a lot of Very. Pretty. People.no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 09:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 03:01 pm (UTC)I love what you say about Cameron particularly; I think she and Weaver both show so much of how the Terminators are COMPLETELY alien, but have this learning curve so we don't quite know what they are exactly. So, so much more complicated and fascinating than the "cylons, YAY!" of BSG, you know?
I can't wait to watch this week's episode. (It's probably good I didn't watch it before BSG, or the BSG finale would have seemed EVEN SUCKIER in comparison :P)
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 09:06 pm (UTC)both show so much of how the Terminators are COMPLETELY alien, but have this learning curve so we don't quite know what they are exactly. So, so much more complicated and fascinating than the "cylons, YAY!" of BSG, you know?
Absolutely! I never lose sight of them being machines but at the same time they're more than any machine I could ever imagine so...? And the show carves them with such apparent ease that it really does make BSG look like a clunk-fest when it comes to the Cylons. Though I know it's a lot harder than it looks to write, play and direct Terminators--I'm very impressed with the whole cast and crew.
This week's episode is AMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZING.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 05:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-22 09:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-23 03:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-23 08:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-03-23 07:22 pm (UTC)This may just be the most important distinction. I think SCC's show 'bible' must be way more detailed and acurate than BSG's ever was because SCC actually remembers, reacts to, and resolves plots/characters/actions. No randomly dropped plots or relationships, no making crap up to "fit" (I use that term loosely) the latest whim of the writing staff, etc.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-24 02:43 am (UTC)think SCC's show 'bible' must be way more detailed and acurate than BSG's ever was because SCC actually remembers, reacts to, and resolves plots/characters/actions. No randomly dropped plots or relationships, no making crap up to "fit" (I use that term loosely) the latest whim of the writing staff, etc.
Yeah, having seen all of BSG now I think all that talk about a show 'bible' was complete BULLSHIT, or they threw it out the window after the first season... because there are so many straggly messy things that don't fit together. SCC is the complete opposite of that. You think things are resolved/ended enough, and then they actually revisit them in an even more satisfying way than you expected. It exceeds my expectations rather than plunging to new depths of awful...
no subject
Date: 2009-03-24 11:52 am (UTC)I'm so impressed that they've done the opposite of that, that the show creator has explicitly said that one of his main interests is to use this show to explore the different forms of female heroism/power, and that this has grown into what I see as the best written show on network tv. The last two episodes have experienced a small increase in ratings and I'm praying that Fox will not cancel it.
I broke up with BSG one year ago. He kept calling me afterwards, trying to lure me back in: "Come back, I've changed. Things will be different this time". OK, I may have given in on one or two nights, but I was finally able to wash that show right out of my hair. And not a moment too soon ,it looks like.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-24 03:58 pm (UTC)That's perfectly expressed and is the heart of why I love the show. It's been so well written--especially in the latter half of season 2--and the show's producers have such integrity. I am desperately clinging to hope Fox will hang on to it, or SciFi will pick it up.
not a moment too soon ,it looks like
TRULY! The finale was a shambles of the worst kind. With bonus randomly-applied pigeon.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-07 06:41 pm (UTC)That's exactly what I assumed too, and I stopped watching, until I heard it was exactly the opposite. It's still surprising!
no subject
Date: 2009-03-25 04:56 pm (UTC)The one thing I observe about the comparison that makes me nervous is that if asked to discuss BSG at the point in its run that TSCC is in its, I would have been full of fairly unqualified praise. Sure, there had been some clunky bits in the back half of s2, but not much that I would have, at that point, called a harbinger of the disappointment to come. Which is not, of course, to say that TSCC may not continue to live up to its promise (dear god, don't let it get cancelled!!!!!)--I certainly hope it does, and, barring cancellation, I have what I think is a reasonable expectation of continued awesomeness. But I also remember that BSG really was awesome, too, once upon a time.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-27 02:49 am (UTC)*dies laughing*
no subject
Date: 2009-03-28 03:40 am (UTC)Battlestar Galactica's treatment of robots was quite wonderful in the first season when the show was still about 9/11. After New Caprica everything fell apart. One of it's fundamental problems is how it gave up on subtly. Which is the core problem with the angels. When it was just silently understood what they were it was a beautiful thing but when they outright said 'OH HEY, HEADSIX IS AN ANGEL' it was just cheap and ugly. That's what BSG turned into. Something cheap and ugly. Like 50-year-old whore.
No thanks
Date: 2009-05-09 07:39 pm (UTC)Re: No thanks
Date: 2009-05-10 12:06 am (UTC)