Unfinished Business: the extended version
Mar. 12th, 2008 07:29 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
bop_radarSo the internet fairies delivered me the extended version of Unfinished Business, and since it's been so very long since I had anything new to chatter about with BSG, I'm eager to talk about it. Anyone else seen it yet? Be warned, though, that my reaction is highly shippy--this being the K/L-shippiest episode of all time, it was kinda unavoidable. ;)
First let me say that I *loved* the short, edited version of Unfinished Business and I'm not that surprised to find that I still greatly prefer it to the longer version (I love good editing!). In some cases,I'm very glad that the extra footage didn't make the cut, in others I'm delighted that the scenes were at least shot/scripted. The extended version is very revealing, but it left me with far more conflicted feelings than the short version did.
Before I get to pilots on their own, let me first say: poor Dee! She always gets her scenes cut, and this is a case where her side of the story got cut out almost entirely. Adama's call about her needing the fight too was really tragic in a way: the fight turned out to be the last thing Dee 'needed'. I think this version makes everything--the fighting, the frakking, the marrying--a FAR bigger screwover of Dee. And it makes it obvious long before TAB that Lee was in major, major denial and his attempts not to 'lie' to Dee are farcical. While that's always been suggested, it doesn't make for pleasant watching to have it spelt out like this.
On a lighter note (sort of!), Lee's reaction to Dee showing up at the dance made me total LOL. Which is terribly mean to Dee, but oh, man, that is NOT how you want your husband to greet you. He looked oh 'oh, damn, why are YOU here'. And his awkward hug seemed to be totally avoiding a direct kiss, even before he blew her off for Kara. I couldn't help wincing at how far gone Lee was in that moment--he seemed not at ALL cut up about turning down sex with his wife for a fight with his ex. It was worse than that--because there was no guarantee the dance would go on long enough for them to fight again: one of their tags had to be drawn out. So it made it seem like Lee had committed to the bout just as much as Kara had. In the edited version, I think that was less obvious.
I'm very glad that most of the dialogue between Dee and Lee didn't make the final cut--it was too overstated, especially the story about the boys that used to beat Dee up. But at least it showed that Dee's not stupid--and she was trying to get Lee to talk about the situation, only he just wouldn't admit anything. Even before she explicitly asked him not to, she was making it pretty hard for Lee to step in the ring with Kara, because by saying 'your fight is about passion' the minute he did so, it was a betrayal of Dee. Lee, of course, was wrapped in about ten layers of denial. When he says that Kara's just been pissing him off... well, that is ALSO true, but it's definitely not the whole truth. And apparently the whole room knew it.
The extended version does clear up the mystery of why Dee wasn't phased by Lee not coming to bed with her that night. I kind of thought she must have known about the field, but it seems she didn't. It also seemed to be suggested that she was piecing things together after Kara dropped the line about having 'been there done that'. She thought there was UST between Kara and Lee and was worried it was unresolved, but then she learns that there's more of a history than she thought. Adding to the sting is the fact that it was Dee who encouraged Lee to stay out that night, and who commented that she'd never seen him so happy. Dee is actually a LOT more clear-sighted about the whole situation than Lee, who later mentions the happiness that he's experienced with Dee: Dee herself knows that pales in comparison to the way he glows around Kara.
Until the proposal scene between them, I really wasn't finding a lot of their interaction revealing. But I actually found the proposal scene itself very powerful. (Don't die of shock!) This scene really shapes the entire Lee/Dee marriage and I think it would have made more sense to viewers if it could have been left in. It makes Kara totally right to call Lee on being a hypocrite. If she 'ran' then so did he; she did so in response to intimacy, he did so in response to rejection. It's all transparently obvious in the scene with Dee. Lee is jittery and all over the place, he can't compose himself and he's rushing to excesses that don't actually hold any weight. He as much as says 'Kara got married, so i may as well marry you now... I'm trying to put the best spin on this as I possibly can'. Oh, Lee! *buries face in hands and despairs* Dee can see that and she calls the situation COMPLETELY accurately. I've never really warmed to Dee as a character, but I do respect her for that. When she said 'you love Kara Thrace', Lee looks so startled--you can see him thinking 'how does she know about last night?' and panicking. Dee's completely right--the two of them are 'linked somehow' and one day Kara will be back.
This scene gives confirmation of Dee's own motivations in the marriage. Her line reflects Roslin's about 'living every day as if it's the last'. She's taking what she can get, while she can, even if it's not perfect. However, she also sends Lee into a massive guilt spiral here. Not undeserved, perhaps, but also not at all healthy or helpful. She says she'll love and cherish him despite knowing he loves Kara. That doesn't leave Lee any way to be honourable and I think it really hurts him that he can't return her love exactly. He's still struggling with Kara's rejection--he seizes on that when Dee says 'when Kara Thrace comes walking back'. For him, he's trying to absorb the fact that it's totally over with Kara. But when he catches himself arguing with Dee, I think he realises a moment too late that what he should be saying is not 'Kara's not coming back' but 'I love YOU'. It IS easier for both of them to kiss in that moment than to keep arguing and dealing with the painful truth.
Lee's going to cop a lot of crit for all the lying he does in this episode. Even from me. He basically acts like a total shit and he uses denial as a coping mechanism. He tries desperately to compartmentalise, telling himself that his realtionship with Dee is NOT about Kara in any way. But it's transparently obvious that it was always a reaction to Kara. Ouch. He had to stay in denial to make the relationship work, but as soon as that was broken down (in the dance) it all fell apart.
Final note on Dee: Gaeta really should have taken her by the arm and whisked her away from the ringside. Symapthetic glances not enough!
Tongue-in-cheek question: Does Kara ever have sex with the person she's actually having sex with?! ;) Flashing to the Kara/Lee field sex during the extended version of the Kara/Sam sex made it far more explicit that she wasn't really connecting with Sam in that moment. I'm not quite optimist enough to believe we were really meant to think Kara was consciously thinking of that moment but evoking it still added a lot more weight to Sam's 'maybe I'm not what you really want' call. I liked the extended dialogue between Kara and Sam for a couple of reasons: firstly because it made Sam seem less of a pushover and secondly because the extra Kara dialogue seemed revealing to me. Her line about not trying to change Sam's mind read to me like a line she'd prepared in advance--because Sam wasn't talking about his mind in that moment, he was talking about hers.
The moment when Kara catches sight of Lee in the ring was far more powerful in the edited version, but I think in this version there was a few extra seconds of her actually clapping the fight, which I liked. And she looked so playful bouncing into the ring. It also seemed just as obvious, if not more so, that she came to the dance to pick a fight with Lee or that she decided on that course of action pretty fast once she turned up.
I was interested to see the extra Lee/Helo moment after their fight. It made them seem a lot more amicable and made it explicit that they respect one another. I always wondered about their fight, about who picked it and how much animosity was there before and after it, because those two clashed a number of times in Season 3. This tips the scales back towards them being on 'buddy' terms.
The scene I really loved was Kara and Anders with the Tighs. Omg, how lolarious! Kara was adorable with her 'they're not going to be friends, are they?' (no honey, but they ARE going to be Cylons!) and her freaked-out eyes at Ellen making an overt pass at her boyfriend. Oh, Kara, you're too cute.
And wow, turns out Sharon's a better gal!pal than I realised. Hearing her bring up Lee with Kara was somewhat startling because Kara/Lee are so rarely acknowledged by other crew mates but she was right on target: Kara was definitely conflating. Also, the dialogue seemed to indicate that Lee met Kara when she was already with Zak. Hmm. What it really got me thinking about though was what mistakes Kara thinks Lee has been making 'since the day he met me'. At first that line made NO SENSE to me at all. Was she complaining that he'd made moves on her? or that he hadn't? I tried both readings and decided that it was a complicated combination of both that made no logical sense but made sense in Kara!brain. ;) The line ties with Kara's call about Lee not knowing 'when to make his moves and when to hold back'. (But when IS that, Kara? could you give him a guidebook, because it sure as hell isn't clear to me!) Kara's anger seems to be twofold: she's ostensibly angry at Anders for being too possessive, but it's hinted in the field scene that she wishes Lee had been able to admit he needed her earlier. I guess that's the paradox: Kara wants to be needed/loved, but she also hates being 'trapped'. (Ok, someone come tell me if I've read Kara completely wrong.)
When Kara took Lee on the tour of her house, Lee saying 'don't jinx it' really hit me in the gut because I feel like HE jinxed it by saying 'Kara Anders' and because I think he meant it genuinely at that moment... only they're both about to ruin four people's lives. *wibbles*
But this scene had me all up and down emotionally, because on the other hand I liked that Kara played up the innuendo with the bedroom--it was a bit more of a come-on then we'd seen from her in the edited version and helps explain how Lee got the courage up to make a move. It was so obvious from his behaviour that he was jealous, that he didn't think much of 'pyramid boy' and that he wished that house was his.
I liked Kara's vulnerability in the 'got anyone in mind, Lee?' moment. But I thought the shorter version, sans applecarts, was more romantic. (However, I'm torn, because Lee casting himself as applecart-upsetter is kind of adorable.)
One thing I didn't like: the longer version made Kara's screamed love declaration far more of a dare. Lee's little line about her being 'afraid' would have totally goaded her into it, regardless of what she truly felt. So I was all busy feeling upset about that, and then...
SHE SAID IT. SHE SAID IT FOR REALZ!!!
Hearing Kara ask Lee if he was sure she was what he wanted totally startled me--so many Kara fans have told me she was genuinely anxious about his feelings, but it's usually so hard for me to see that. So I really appreciated seeing her actually ask him. And as if that wasn't enough SHE SAID SHE LOVED HIM. USING THE FIRST-PERSON PRONOUN. NOT JUST AS A DARE! *squeeeeeeeeee* I never dared believe she'd really said that to him. I am SO glad (even if it made the next morning more painful). I see why Jamie mentioned this moment of the pilots being honest with each other as one he would have liked left it. Apart from anything else, they mentioned ZAK! I'm very glad about that because I do think he was a shadow between them for so long. But I am also glad that Lee's dialogue showed that it wasn't just Zak that held him back, it was also his own fear. And then when Kara answered him it seemed like she recognised that feeling herself--it felt like she found a way to understand Lee a little better maybe, because she had fears of her own. I was surprised by how gentle she was with Lee, and how forgiving she seemed in that moment. It made it really seem like she'd wished he'd made a move earlier but had been too afraid herself to do anything about it--which makes a stronger parallel between both of them.
And as if the 'I love you too' was not enough, we got another little smile from her afterwards as they kissed and she relaxed in his arms. That TOTALLY matched the smile in his arms at the end of the fight! *more squee*
Watching Unfinished Business this time was a different experience for me even without the longer version, simply because I happen to be in quite a 'Kara-y' mood/place at the moment. I'm not sure why, except that I've been missing her. And my first reaction to seeing her in UB was 'omg, I'd forgotten how awesome you are!' despite the fact that she was frakking over Lee. So even her ultra-bitchy comments in this didn't really bother me. I giggled at 'Hold that thought, ok?' in response to Lee screaming 'motherfrakker' at her. She's so damn infuriating and so damn adorable all at the same time!
The Tigh scene, which I already knew about, was actually better in execution than it sounded on paper. I thought Katee brought a lot to that scene--she made it seem a lot more natural than I thought was possible. Like the Dee stuff, I am glad they cut it because I think it was overstated to have her reflect on 'survival instinct'. But I do think the fact that she came back to town and got a taste of 'reality' would have made the night before seem surreal, like something that couldn't be trusted.
And ok, I STILL don't completely understand why she ran from Lee. However, I think the heart of it has got to lie in the different sources of fear for Kara and Lee. Lee's fear is of rejection--he'll do anything to avoid it. But once Kara accepted him and his love for her, his fear evaporated. Presumably that's when Kara's fears were most kicking in. If it's not rejection she fears, it's intimacy? expectations?
From a boxing pov, I really liked the line 'did I break the rules?' as an acknowledgment that Kara did play dirty in that fight. But Lee's response shows it didn't really matter--the entire fight was outside the parameters of the 'dance' and he knew all bets were off. I rather liked Lee having the guts to call her on the fact that she ran, that her action was self-protective, that she's always closed-off.
With the extended fight, I find myself with the same conflicted feelings I have about the whole extended episode: on the one hand, I liked the extra material because it did add something to the picture. But on the other hand, I found the short version far more powerful and effective. Even more 'romantic' in a way. I liked the idea of a non-verbal 'fight to a standstill'. But it was impossible not to grin at 'why? so you can hit me some more?' (And pssst, Lee, that's what you need to do: HANG ON SO SHE CAN'T HIT YOU ANY MORE! Physically OR emotionally!) Also, I really loved Kara saying 'I think things just got more complicated'. It made an even clearer parallel to their post-coital scene in the field. And I loved Lee's hysterical reaction to her saying that. I SO thought he was going to kiss her. But then his giggle could have been a 'oh shit, I might just wind up hurting her nose more, if I try that' as well as a giggle at the sheer frakked-up-ness. It was somehow cathartic to see them collapse together, but I really wish Dee hadn't still been there. Having them end in a tumble on the ground though reminded me of them nearly suffocating together.
Dee is right. They are tied together somehow. And I wish they'd just accept how much they need each other already!
Oh, show! Come baaaaaaaaack, I missshhhs you!
First let me say that I *loved* the short, edited version of Unfinished Business and I'm not that surprised to find that I still greatly prefer it to the longer version (I love good editing!). In some cases,I'm very glad that the extra footage didn't make the cut, in others I'm delighted that the scenes were at least shot/scripted. The extended version is very revealing, but it left me with far more conflicted feelings than the short version did.
Before I get to pilots on their own, let me first say: poor Dee! She always gets her scenes cut, and this is a case where her side of the story got cut out almost entirely. Adama's call about her needing the fight too was really tragic in a way: the fight turned out to be the last thing Dee 'needed'. I think this version makes everything--the fighting, the frakking, the marrying--a FAR bigger screwover of Dee. And it makes it obvious long before TAB that Lee was in major, major denial and his attempts not to 'lie' to Dee are farcical. While that's always been suggested, it doesn't make for pleasant watching to have it spelt out like this.
On a lighter note (sort of!), Lee's reaction to Dee showing up at the dance made me total LOL. Which is terribly mean to Dee, but oh, man, that is NOT how you want your husband to greet you. He looked oh 'oh, damn, why are YOU here'. And his awkward hug seemed to be totally avoiding a direct kiss, even before he blew her off for Kara. I couldn't help wincing at how far gone Lee was in that moment--he seemed not at ALL cut up about turning down sex with his wife for a fight with his ex. It was worse than that--because there was no guarantee the dance would go on long enough for them to fight again: one of their tags had to be drawn out. So it made it seem like Lee had committed to the bout just as much as Kara had. In the edited version, I think that was less obvious.
I'm very glad that most of the dialogue between Dee and Lee didn't make the final cut--it was too overstated, especially the story about the boys that used to beat Dee up. But at least it showed that Dee's not stupid--and she was trying to get Lee to talk about the situation, only he just wouldn't admit anything. Even before she explicitly asked him not to, she was making it pretty hard for Lee to step in the ring with Kara, because by saying 'your fight is about passion' the minute he did so, it was a betrayal of Dee. Lee, of course, was wrapped in about ten layers of denial. When he says that Kara's just been pissing him off... well, that is ALSO true, but it's definitely not the whole truth. And apparently the whole room knew it.
The extended version does clear up the mystery of why Dee wasn't phased by Lee not coming to bed with her that night. I kind of thought she must have known about the field, but it seems she didn't. It also seemed to be suggested that she was piecing things together after Kara dropped the line about having 'been there done that'. She thought there was UST between Kara and Lee and was worried it was unresolved, but then she learns that there's more of a history than she thought. Adding to the sting is the fact that it was Dee who encouraged Lee to stay out that night, and who commented that she'd never seen him so happy. Dee is actually a LOT more clear-sighted about the whole situation than Lee, who later mentions the happiness that he's experienced with Dee: Dee herself knows that pales in comparison to the way he glows around Kara.
Until the proposal scene between them, I really wasn't finding a lot of their interaction revealing. But I actually found the proposal scene itself very powerful. (Don't die of shock!) This scene really shapes the entire Lee/Dee marriage and I think it would have made more sense to viewers if it could have been left in. It makes Kara totally right to call Lee on being a hypocrite. If she 'ran' then so did he; she did so in response to intimacy, he did so in response to rejection. It's all transparently obvious in the scene with Dee. Lee is jittery and all over the place, he can't compose himself and he's rushing to excesses that don't actually hold any weight. He as much as says 'Kara got married, so i may as well marry you now... I'm trying to put the best spin on this as I possibly can'. Oh, Lee! *buries face in hands and despairs* Dee can see that and she calls the situation COMPLETELY accurately. I've never really warmed to Dee as a character, but I do respect her for that. When she said 'you love Kara Thrace', Lee looks so startled--you can see him thinking 'how does she know about last night?' and panicking. Dee's completely right--the two of them are 'linked somehow' and one day Kara will be back.
This scene gives confirmation of Dee's own motivations in the marriage. Her line reflects Roslin's about 'living every day as if it's the last'. She's taking what she can get, while she can, even if it's not perfect. However, she also sends Lee into a massive guilt spiral here. Not undeserved, perhaps, but also not at all healthy or helpful. She says she'll love and cherish him despite knowing he loves Kara. That doesn't leave Lee any way to be honourable and I think it really hurts him that he can't return her love exactly. He's still struggling with Kara's rejection--he seizes on that when Dee says 'when Kara Thrace comes walking back'. For him, he's trying to absorb the fact that it's totally over with Kara. But when he catches himself arguing with Dee, I think he realises a moment too late that what he should be saying is not 'Kara's not coming back' but 'I love YOU'. It IS easier for both of them to kiss in that moment than to keep arguing and dealing with the painful truth.
Lee's going to cop a lot of crit for all the lying he does in this episode. Even from me. He basically acts like a total shit and he uses denial as a coping mechanism. He tries desperately to compartmentalise, telling himself that his realtionship with Dee is NOT about Kara in any way. But it's transparently obvious that it was always a reaction to Kara. Ouch. He had to stay in denial to make the relationship work, but as soon as that was broken down (in the dance) it all fell apart.
Final note on Dee: Gaeta really should have taken her by the arm and whisked her away from the ringside. Symapthetic glances not enough!
Tongue-in-cheek question: Does Kara ever have sex with the person she's actually having sex with?! ;) Flashing to the Kara/Lee field sex during the extended version of the Kara/Sam sex made it far more explicit that she wasn't really connecting with Sam in that moment. I'm not quite optimist enough to believe we were really meant to think Kara was consciously thinking of that moment but evoking it still added a lot more weight to Sam's 'maybe I'm not what you really want' call. I liked the extended dialogue between Kara and Sam for a couple of reasons: firstly because it made Sam seem less of a pushover and secondly because the extra Kara dialogue seemed revealing to me. Her line about not trying to change Sam's mind read to me like a line she'd prepared in advance--because Sam wasn't talking about his mind in that moment, he was talking about hers.
The moment when Kara catches sight of Lee in the ring was far more powerful in the edited version, but I think in this version there was a few extra seconds of her actually clapping the fight, which I liked. And she looked so playful bouncing into the ring. It also seemed just as obvious, if not more so, that she came to the dance to pick a fight with Lee or that she decided on that course of action pretty fast once she turned up.
I was interested to see the extra Lee/Helo moment after their fight. It made them seem a lot more amicable and made it explicit that they respect one another. I always wondered about their fight, about who picked it and how much animosity was there before and after it, because those two clashed a number of times in Season 3. This tips the scales back towards them being on 'buddy' terms.
The scene I really loved was Kara and Anders with the Tighs. Omg, how lolarious! Kara was adorable with her 'they're not going to be friends, are they?' (no honey, but they ARE going to be Cylons!) and her freaked-out eyes at Ellen making an overt pass at her boyfriend. Oh, Kara, you're too cute.
And wow, turns out Sharon's a better gal!pal than I realised. Hearing her bring up Lee with Kara was somewhat startling because Kara/Lee are so rarely acknowledged by other crew mates but she was right on target: Kara was definitely conflating. Also, the dialogue seemed to indicate that Lee met Kara when she was already with Zak. Hmm. What it really got me thinking about though was what mistakes Kara thinks Lee has been making 'since the day he met me'. At first that line made NO SENSE to me at all. Was she complaining that he'd made moves on her? or that he hadn't? I tried both readings and decided that it was a complicated combination of both that made no logical sense but made sense in Kara!brain. ;) The line ties with Kara's call about Lee not knowing 'when to make his moves and when to hold back'. (But when IS that, Kara? could you give him a guidebook, because it sure as hell isn't clear to me!) Kara's anger seems to be twofold: she's ostensibly angry at Anders for being too possessive, but it's hinted in the field scene that she wishes Lee had been able to admit he needed her earlier. I guess that's the paradox: Kara wants to be needed/loved, but she also hates being 'trapped'. (Ok, someone come tell me if I've read Kara completely wrong.)
When Kara took Lee on the tour of her house, Lee saying 'don't jinx it' really hit me in the gut because I feel like HE jinxed it by saying 'Kara Anders' and because I think he meant it genuinely at that moment... only they're both about to ruin four people's lives. *wibbles*
But this scene had me all up and down emotionally, because on the other hand I liked that Kara played up the innuendo with the bedroom--it was a bit more of a come-on then we'd seen from her in the edited version and helps explain how Lee got the courage up to make a move. It was so obvious from his behaviour that he was jealous, that he didn't think much of 'pyramid boy' and that he wished that house was his.
I liked Kara's vulnerability in the 'got anyone in mind, Lee?' moment. But I thought the shorter version, sans applecarts, was more romantic. (However, I'm torn, because Lee casting himself as applecart-upsetter is kind of adorable.)
One thing I didn't like: the longer version made Kara's screamed love declaration far more of a dare. Lee's little line about her being 'afraid' would have totally goaded her into it, regardless of what she truly felt. So I was all busy feeling upset about that, and then...
SHE SAID IT. SHE SAID IT FOR REALZ!!!
Hearing Kara ask Lee if he was sure she was what he wanted totally startled me--so many Kara fans have told me she was genuinely anxious about his feelings, but it's usually so hard for me to see that. So I really appreciated seeing her actually ask him. And as if that wasn't enough SHE SAID SHE LOVED HIM. USING THE FIRST-PERSON PRONOUN. NOT JUST AS A DARE! *squeeeeeeeeee* I never dared believe she'd really said that to him. I am SO glad (even if it made the next morning more painful). I see why Jamie mentioned this moment of the pilots being honest with each other as one he would have liked left it. Apart from anything else, they mentioned ZAK! I'm very glad about that because I do think he was a shadow between them for so long. But I am also glad that Lee's dialogue showed that it wasn't just Zak that held him back, it was also his own fear. And then when Kara answered him it seemed like she recognised that feeling herself--it felt like she found a way to understand Lee a little better maybe, because she had fears of her own. I was surprised by how gentle she was with Lee, and how forgiving she seemed in that moment. It made it really seem like she'd wished he'd made a move earlier but had been too afraid herself to do anything about it--which makes a stronger parallel between both of them.
And as if the 'I love you too' was not enough, we got another little smile from her afterwards as they kissed and she relaxed in his arms. That TOTALLY matched the smile in his arms at the end of the fight! *more squee*
Watching Unfinished Business this time was a different experience for me even without the longer version, simply because I happen to be in quite a 'Kara-y' mood/place at the moment. I'm not sure why, except that I've been missing her. And my first reaction to seeing her in UB was 'omg, I'd forgotten how awesome you are!' despite the fact that she was frakking over Lee. So even her ultra-bitchy comments in this didn't really bother me. I giggled at 'Hold that thought, ok?' in response to Lee screaming 'motherfrakker' at her. She's so damn infuriating and so damn adorable all at the same time!
The Tigh scene, which I already knew about, was actually better in execution than it sounded on paper. I thought Katee brought a lot to that scene--she made it seem a lot more natural than I thought was possible. Like the Dee stuff, I am glad they cut it because I think it was overstated to have her reflect on 'survival instinct'. But I do think the fact that she came back to town and got a taste of 'reality' would have made the night before seem surreal, like something that couldn't be trusted.
And ok, I STILL don't completely understand why she ran from Lee. However, I think the heart of it has got to lie in the different sources of fear for Kara and Lee. Lee's fear is of rejection--he'll do anything to avoid it. But once Kara accepted him and his love for her, his fear evaporated. Presumably that's when Kara's fears were most kicking in. If it's not rejection she fears, it's intimacy? expectations?
From a boxing pov, I really liked the line 'did I break the rules?' as an acknowledgment that Kara did play dirty in that fight. But Lee's response shows it didn't really matter--the entire fight was outside the parameters of the 'dance' and he knew all bets were off. I rather liked Lee having the guts to call her on the fact that she ran, that her action was self-protective, that she's always closed-off.
With the extended fight, I find myself with the same conflicted feelings I have about the whole extended episode: on the one hand, I liked the extra material because it did add something to the picture. But on the other hand, I found the short version far more powerful and effective. Even more 'romantic' in a way. I liked the idea of a non-verbal 'fight to a standstill'. But it was impossible not to grin at 'why? so you can hit me some more?' (And pssst, Lee, that's what you need to do: HANG ON SO SHE CAN'T HIT YOU ANY MORE! Physically OR emotionally!) Also, I really loved Kara saying 'I think things just got more complicated'. It made an even clearer parallel to their post-coital scene in the field. And I loved Lee's hysterical reaction to her saying that. I SO thought he was going to kiss her. But then his giggle could have been a 'oh shit, I might just wind up hurting her nose more, if I try that' as well as a giggle at the sheer frakked-up-ness. It was somehow cathartic to see them collapse together, but I really wish Dee hadn't still been there. Having them end in a tumble on the ground though reminded me of them nearly suffocating together.
Dee is right. They are tied together somehow. And I wish they'd just accept how much they need each other already!
Oh, show! Come baaaaaaaaack, I missshhhs you!
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Date: 2008-03-12 04:33 pm (UTC)Kara lies to herself because it's easier for her to blame others and put on a show of anger than it is to admit how much she might need love (or be needed and valued by others). This ep really spells out how much she fears being close to anyone, and it tracks not only in her rel. with Lee but also with Sam and even Kacey. It's so sad that she can't feel like she could really be loved by Lee that much ("Are you sure I'm what you want?" I think is more reflective of her own insecurity than Lee's lack of action before) and that she bolts even after they reach such a level of honesty with one another, but given her childhood, it makes a Kara kind of sense. Growing up, she felt love but also awful physical and emotional pain and rejection from the person she needed most. Thus the paradoxical feelings and actions, drawing closer and pushing back. Damn it. See, this is why I ship Kara/emotional stability above all else. She needs to get her head on straight (and so does Lee)!
Maybe I'm not so disturbed by this cut because I already knew about the frakked-up proposal scene (mentioned in a podcast). And I went through my frustrated-with-Kara phase after UB (although she wasn't so vicious in the version that aired; thank goodness her brutal outing of their frak to Dee was cut!) and I went through my extremely-frustrated-with-Lee phase after TaB (with much yelling at the screen). If I had seen this version those phases would have just overlapped.
I also think Dee is less of a doormat than I originally thought. (WTF, you are thinking. I know!) I mean to say that Dee's agency shouldn't be minimized in this situation. She made her choice and it wasn't blind. She went into this with her eyes open and accepted that she wanted to take as much happiness as she could, for however long it would last. I used to be mad at her for thinking so little of herself, for accepting that she was not as important as Kara but still wanting to be with Lee anyway; but
The temptation of wanting to just live in the moment and try to be happy is the theme of UB, not shippy feelings, although of course there is great overlap between theme and subject there. It's a story that could only be told within the frame of being back on Galactica, with the haven revealed as false and all hopes of paradise lost, with the personal and professional relationships back in a greater tangle, with Adama getting up and saying he never should have given them that chance to be simply human, because they paid the cost in lives. That's the sadness of it all -- they have to take up their burdens, but they will always be haunted by the shadow of the past. Poor souls. They still can't get their chance at normal.
Part 1
Date: 2008-03-12 09:10 pm (UTC)Not possible! Did I mention my heart?! My heart it still totally Lee's. I just thought people would get bored and throw things at me if I didn't mention what a shit he was. No-one wants to hear me say 'but I love him anyway' every second sentence--it goes without saying! ;) (Although that's what my BSG reviews are usually like!)
it makes it easier for me to understand Lee and Kara's lies because they are so obviously lying to themselves foremost
I absolutely agree with that. And I think this episode actually made it feel a lot more 'equal' between them. As you point out, they are BOTH deeply in denial, both conflating current partners with past ones.
the upheval of being rejected like that after the most vulnerable and happy moment of his life put him into a kind of emotional shellshock. He was so desperate to get back to that state of denial, to thinking that all his chances of happiness weren't wrapped up in a woman who'd just dashed all his hopes, that he couldn't even see how stupid and reckless and horrible he was being in his proposal to Dee.
Yup! That's a perfect description of what happened. Can I point people to it?! :)
Kara lies to herself because it's easier for her to blame others and put on a show of anger than it is to admit how much she might need love (or be needed and valued by others).
You know, I never was convinced that Kara DID lie to herself that much. So often all I see is 'surface Kara', the hard-edged tough pilot, but this episode definitely strips that back and proves that there IS more underneath and that she's in as much denial as Lee.
"Are you sure I'm what you want?" I think is more reflective of her own insecurity than Lee's lack of action before
Yeah, you're right... It does make me wonder though if all she really wants is SOMEone to love her, not LEE to love her. That moment definitely played as a 'how could anyone really want me?' moment. And with Sam she was all 'I won't change your mind'--as if she wasn't surprised that he was pulling away from her. What do you think it will take for Kara to trust someone's love?
Growing up, she felt love but also awful physical and emotional pain and rejection from the person she needed most. Thus the paradoxical feelings and actions, drawing closer and pushing back.
Thank you--that does make intellectual sense to me. It's just something I've got no emotional 'in' to, so I struggle to understand the way that works intuitively. Poor Kara. :(
I went through my extremely-frustrated-with-Lee phase after TaB (with much yelling at the screen). If I had seen this version those phases would have just overlapped.
Heee. You know, TAB didn't bother me that much. Because by then I'd worked out by extrapolation what we (essentially) see here in the extended version so it didn't come as that big a surprise. I just wished we'd seen it earlier. So I actually really liked the proposal scene (in a frakked up way)--I thought it was the strongest of all the cut scenes. And yeah, it hurt me and felt all twisted and wrong, but it WAS all twisted and wrong, so I'm fine with that reaction. And I don't actaully feel any anger at Lee at all--it's just not in me. I identify WAY too much with his actions, to the point of even thinking 'oh god, this is something *I* would do!' in the proposal scene. *hides face in shame*
Dee's agency shouldn't be minimized in this situation. She made her choice and it wasn't blind
Totally! I second that. It's one reason I wished the proposal HADN'T been cut.
Part II
Date: 2008-03-12 09:10 pm (UTC)Exactly! It's good to hear that you've made sense of what Jamie said. The only reason I didn't really talk about that here is because I kind of feel I went through all that already with TAB, of which I was more of a fan than you, and hey, just about anyone, lol! I don't find Lee turning to Dee hard to understand at all, and it totally choked me up to see him in the proposal scene eating himself alive already for not being able to return her love 'purely'.
It's interesting that Lee thought he'd faced how much he needed Kara in the field after he screamed his love out. But her rejection left him desperately needing to put a lid on that again, to deny that need completely. His anger at her through that whole time until UB makes so much sense, as well as the suddenness with which he falls back into her arms. But then I never really found that hard to understand. ;)
It sounds like you enjoyed the long version? So did I. If my review sounded like I was uncomfortable with it, it's only because I found it less focused and more of a tangle of conflicting scenes/moods than the shorter version. SO glad to have seen it though because there's some great extra material in there.
Re: Part II
Date: 2008-03-13 06:19 am (UTC)So true. And it makes me wibble. Kara might have called him a hypocrite but he's not as much of one as she thinks: he retreated into a 'safe' choice like she did, but before that he was at least willing to make that dangerous leap. If she'd accepted him, he wouldn't have retreated from those feelings. But New Caprica fits into the myth arc of all epic quests for a homeland: there's always a false haven, and when people settle there, the results are always disastrous. Kara/Lee couldn't happen there because NC was a whole entire world of "wrong place, wrong time."
I like the lid metaphor for Lee, too. He's all bottled up, but not necessarily because he wants to be. :) It was nice to see him chafe against the constraints of formality that being Commander entailed and throw it all off and get drunk enough to engage in some extremely silly capering about, even if he couldn't do it for more than one night. He never was more relaxed or happier than that night. He won't be like that again for some time -- maybe ever? Oh. But Earth is out there. We can still hope.
It sounds like you enjoyed the long version? So did I. If my review sounded like I was uncomfortable with it, it's only because I found it less focused and more of a tangle of conflicting scenes/moods than the shorter version. SO glad to have seen it though because there's some great extra material in there.
I understand, and yes, I liked it too. I do prefer the shorter version because it's tighter, and the way everything weaves together it's got stronger beats. Of all the scenes added, I personally could have left some on the cutting-room floor. I especially liked Adama's face in the sun (like Lee on Cloud Nine), the longer field scene (HEY I'M ONLY HUMAN AND I HAVE MY DRUTHERS), and I also would have kept the proposal. Some things made me cringe even more, and I felt were excessive -- like the total bitchface act Kara puts on in both blaming Lee for her frakked up marriage (yeah right, I don't think even Kara buys that one), and trying to ruin his marriage with Dee by telling her they'd frakked (damn, I wished at that moment Lee had told Sam what had happened the night before their wedding -- she would have deserved it).
I think there are plenty of people out there who won't even try to understand Kara and/or Lee, or write it off and think this ep is all about the ships, but I think that's their loss. This episode rocks and I loved getting a peek at this extra material!
Re: Part II
Date: 2008-03-13 07:44 am (UTC)*nods*
New Caprica fits into the myth arc of all epic quests for a homeland: there's always a false haven, and when people settle there, the results are always disastrous. Kara/Lee couldn't happen there because NC was a whole entire world of "wrong place, wrong time."
Totally! I love your myth-focus. NC was bad news: it seemed like a haven, but it wasn't. The Adama/Roslin scenes played into that whole idea as well.
It was nice to see him chafe against the constraints of formality that being Commander entailed and throw it all off and get drunk enough to engage in some extremely silly capering about, even if he couldn't do it for more than one night. He never was more relaxed or happier than that night.
Yeah he really was at his happiest. We've only ever seen him like that with Kara in their playful season 1 scenes. And it's only ever really with her that he can relax--they can do that and then go back to being CAG and pilot, but with others it would be harder, I think.
both blaming Lee for her frakked up marriage (yeah right, I don't think even Kara buys that one), and trying to frak up his marriage with Dee by telling her they'd frakked (damn, I wished at that moment Lee had told Sam what had happened the night before their wedding -- she would have deserved it).
Hee, yeah those moments were totally bitchy and unnecessary.
write it off and think this ep is all about the ships, but I think that's their loss. This episode rocks and I loved getting a peek at this extra material!
You're right: it's not all about ships (despite my completely ship-focussed review!) and I think it's a pity that it gets viewed that way. But it IS gold for shippers and I can see why if you weren't one you'd get sick of all the squee around the episode. But I think it's a really important episode for the entire fleet: it wraps up the NC arc and there's a lot of emotional evolution in it for many characters. It's kind of a turning point in the season too.
Re: Part 1 (a)
Date: 2008-03-13 05:50 am (UTC)Hee, oh good then! I feel the same way. I guess if you know me it goes without saying, but any criticism I make has a little asterisk attached also: *“I am, of course, still totally in love and scarily overinvested in both of them.”
Can I point people to it?
Sure! I’m so glad you agree. It really struck me how visibly shaky Lee was at that moment. If he had been smooth and suave and a perfect pretender with Dee, I would have been hard pressed to understand that. But you can see he can barely even string a sentence together.
You know, I never was convinced that Kara DID lie to herself that much. So often all I see is 'surface Kara', the hard-edged tough pilot, but this episode definitely strips that back and proves that there IS more underneath and that she's in as much denial as Lee.
Ah! That’s fascinating. I see her doing that all the time. My impression of her is that she’s more reflective than she lets on – but at the same time doesn’t want to admit it. The moments when she’s by herself, it’s easier to see: praying or watching the film of the pilot taken out by Scar or touching Zak and Lee’s photo. But the surface Kara is a harder-edged, louder, angrier person the more hurt that’s going on inside, and she uses that to hide behind. You can see that she pushes back with more aggressive denials when people around her want to talk about things that she herself is going through – like when Lee tries to get her to talk when the pilots die in “Act of Contrition,” and we know from the flashbacks that she is thinking about Zak, she acts like she’s going to punch him for even bringing it up. How DARE he. Because he touched a nerve; he got too close to the truth. And others aren’t be allowed to be expressive either. In “Scar,” when Kat and Duck and others are musing over the name of Riley’s girlfriend, Kara mocks, “You guys, what does it matter? Gonna hold a little prayer circle? Good cry? The whole thing?” But we know that she’s distraught not only by the sense she’s let Anders down and he must be dead, but has felt the weight of each of her fellow pilots’ deaths (and can recite them all by name in front of everyone). She, like Kat, is also afraid of dying, of having a meaningless life, of meaning nothing to nobody – it’s the reason why she can see through Kat’s fears so easily and cut her down.
Some people only like to deal with surface-Kara. It’s not exactly a mask, because she’s lived with it so long it’s part of who she is. But there’s more there. Lee (and others) see glimpses, but it’s really unpredictable when they’ll show. It’s part of her pattern of 180s that I think makes him really uncertain as to how to proceed. When is it okay to express emotion, when is it not?
What do you think it will take for Kara to trust someone's love?
Like Leoben says, she hears her mother’s voice in her head everyday; she thinks she’s a cancer that should be removed. That needs to change. She might lash out in anger at everything in everyone else but at the core of that, a part of her hates herself. It’s not really what Sam or Lee or any other potential partner bring to the table that causes problems (or will fix them) in her. The solution’s got to come from within. I have enough faith in Kara Power that it will happen! (And this ep--in both its incarnations--confirmed to me that Lee is who she really wants.)
But for the future: working though some things in the visions in Maelstrom was a good start. And the search for Earth might finally give her stronger self-worth: she’ll probably have a real sense of purpose now. Before, she didn’t have anything to live for but fighting Cylons; then she hoped that saving Sam would be enough; now I just hope that she can actually play a positive role and save everyone’s asses, because a) I always expected that Kara would make that happen and b) the grumpy old hybrid with the scary nostrils is probably saying something ambiguous in the manner of all prophets. (LALALA harbinger of death for evil people, maybe! The Cavils must not follow her. Because she will punch them in the face.)
Re: Part 1 (b)
Date: 2008-03-13 05:55 am (UTC)Yeah, well, Kara’s such a jumble of feelings and motivations, no simple explanation can cover it, can it? She’s the kind of person who will push you away and expect you to go and think you’re right to leave but still resent it when you do. And she’s also the kind of person who will turn around when you’ve given up and put all her apology in a hug and reach out and say I missed you.
I think Kara wants love but at the same time it scares her to want it, it’s this scary falling-off-a-cliff feeling, she can’t fully control it. She especially can’t control when it will be taken away from her (I say “when” instead of “whether or not” because I think she’s that beset by pessimism). It even makes me think of Zak—sob, I was so happy to hear his name mentioned here! But she didn’t want to risk losing his love by crushing his dream, and tragically, that only resulted in losing him forever. And when she chose Sam that might have seemed safer, but she did a lot to sabotage that too. She kept pushing him away until he finally went, and even when she takes him back, it’s very much conditional. You go live on that other ship and come when I call. I’ll tell you this half of what’s going on with me, but not that. You can ask me to come with you but I don’t have to say I will.
When I think about Kara and vulnerability I also think back to that moment in Maelstrom when her mother tells her she’s dying, and Kara tries, just a little, to reach out to her, comfort her wordlessly. And her mom jerks her hand away. She tells Kara she doesn’t want her pity. Rejected. To Kara, it must seem like once again, her mom doesn’t care about her, doesn’t want her to show any emotion, not even at this extreme moment of crisis. She doesn’t want her love. So Kara gets angry right back, and runs. It didn’t make her feel better, but that was her instinct: to reject in turn.
And as for Kara’s 180s: I think her mother had extreme reversals of behavior–-abusive one moment, relatively normal the next. And how do you make sense of that, as a little kid? You think they might not love you and you think everything bad that happens is your fault. Her own mother would tell her that she’s worthless. Even if she rejects that idea defiantly, pretends that she didn’t give a damn, rejects her mother in turn, that little gnawing voice would be there. It lived with her for years -- her formative years. Without another parent around or any alternate, healthier model to follow, that’s just not easy to shake. She’s more like her mother than she’d like to admit. But I think she can overcome it.
I thought it was the strongest of all the cut scenes. And yeah, it hurt me and felt all twisted and wrong, but it WAS all twisted and wrong, so I'm fine with that reaction.
Yes, absolutely. It was painful (I never like seeing them frak up) but necessary. It felt like a puzzle piece falling into place. And painful is BSG anyway. I was telling Jo, “if it feels like getting what you want just punched you in the stomach, you’re watching Battlestar Galactica.” :)
Re: Part 1 (a)
Date: 2008-03-13 07:58 am (UTC)Yeah, you made me realise that I really assume nowadays that anyone who reads my BSG meta knows I'm batshit for Lee and so it doesn't need to be repeated. Last season I started to get really self-conscious, to be honest, about how I'd always wind up explaining/fangirling/defending Lee.
you can see he can barely even string a sentence together.
Yeah, I totally loved how broken he was in that scene. I always thought he'd married Dee in response to Kara's marriage--and that scene is a perfect missing link.
My impression of her is that she’s more reflective than she lets on – but at the same time doesn’t want to admit it.
Heh. Whereas Lee often comes across as the more self-aware of the two but he's more in denial than it appears--and than he'd like to admit.
But we know that she’s distraught not only by the sense she’s let Anders down and he must be dead, but has felt the weight of each of her fellow pilots’ deaths (and can recite them all by name in front of everyone).
I do see that. (Scar worked really well for me that way.) And I think I've got better at reading Kara, but I am definitely one of those fans who needs to see the other (name-reciting) side of Kara at some stage in order to know it exists. We get it sometimes... but not consistently.
Lee (and others) see glimpses, but it’s really unpredictable when they’ll show. It’s part of her pattern of 180s that I think makes him really uncertain as to how to proceed. When is it okay to express emotion, when is it not?
Yeah, I agree with that--he just never knows with Kara.
The solution’s got to come from within. I have enough faith in Kara Power that it will happen!
I like your optimism. :) And I'm definitely a big fan of the idea that each of the pilots needs to fix themselves from the inside out first rather than rely on the other one to resolve their issues.
(And this ep--in both its incarnations--confirmed to me that Lee is who she really wants
I was so shocked by the first version (I sobbed myself stupid), I really wasn't convinced at all. But this long version has made me a lot surer of that. Especially since Maelstrom had laid the groundwork. That was one ep where I really believed in Kara's love for Lee. I'm sure I'll have my nervous moments again, but I think overall now I'm convinced. I tell you, D, that 'I love you' from her healed something in me!
(LALALA harbinger of death for evil people, maybe! The Cavils must not follow her. Because she will punch them in the face.)
*giggles at the idea of the prophecy being specifically for Cavils*