I don't think I've read any of you meta before Oh, I'm a little embarrassed then. I'm not sure this is one of my better pieces.
I decided that she wasn't so much lying to her officers as eventually buying into her own lies to the crew. I think I agree that we weren't given enough evidence of her character because I couldn't really see the shift to that, if that's what did happen. I felt like we weren't really allowed inside her head.
at first I thought maybe just too much got cut from the scene Yeah me too. I do wonder what the longer DVD cut will be like.
I'm actually okay with it now because I do see what they were going for with the Lee/Cain parallel Yeah, definitely--the whole structure of the movie was about that, so I'm willing to ride with it for narrative/plot purposes even if it feels a little forced.
They were both so caught up in the mission that it blinded them to the big picture. Like, well, "razors." I don't think Lee lost sight of the big picture, I think it's the big picture that blinded him to hanging on to his humanity. I think he was too busy thinking of the ultimate overall strategic importance of the mission that he rushed into the 'destroy at all costs' thinking. Whereas Cain was blinded by her desire for vengeance. They have different end purposes but they're both willing to take casualties in the pursuit of it. It's the 'ends justify the means' thinking. Except they don't always, and it pays to try and see if there's another way first.
Not the seasoned vet. telling the kid "woah, hold up there!" But to me this makes sense for Lee because I think that his humanity has always been in tension with his military role in a way that it's not for, say, Adama and Kara. Yes. *nods* I think that worked dramatically and from a Lee perspective I'm glad they turned our expectations around because I do think he's a very clear-sighted strategic thinker, and this was a good way to show both that strength and the inherent dangers in that too.
I can see how you say Kendra was tactically more important because she's the XO No, it's not just that, it's also that there's a command structure for a reason and in the military it's respected at all costs--if Lee started protecting a friend over his XO there would be a lot of trouble in the ranks. Ditto, I think, if he ordered one of the marines to do it--I'm not sure but I think that would be taken very badly--like he was protecting his cabal of officers and sacrificing troops. But I'm shakier on that. Other people have made argued that point better than me.
For me, personally and how I instinctively made sense of that scene without the military details, it came down to Kendra being injured and also having a question mark over her loyalty and Lee knowing Kara was both fit enough and committed enough to do it.
I thought you told be that Lee sees Kara as the ultimate survivalist who will betray anyone to save her own skin?? So does this mean you two have changed your minds? ;) Hee. Please note that when I made that comment (which you have exaggerated, btw!) to you I'd already seen Razor, so no, I don't take that back. I'm not sure how to explain it to you, except to say that Kara's always read to me as a hero character and an individualist. Her commitment to the military has been second to none in the risks she's taken, including with her own life. I've never been in any doubt that when faced with a life/death scenario, Kara would be willing to die. Willing, but not happy, if that makes any sense? And her reaction to Lee's order captures that perfectly. I never meant that she was someone who would put her own life above that of others, exactly, but I do think that if there is a chance, even the slimmest of chances, of survival without compromising her military loyalty, Kara will go for that chance with 200% of her energy. Make any sense? We see that in Razor when she blasts her way back in after Pegasus open fire. Showboat was all 'will that work?!' Kara didn't even stop to think--it didn't matter, but she was going to die trying. Dying trying, that's how I've always thought of Kara. And it's maybe why I found Maelstrom SO gutting--because she stopped trying to live.
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branchandroot
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Date: 2007-11-14 11:05 pm (UTC)Oh, I'm a little embarrassed then. I'm not sure this is one of my better pieces.
I decided that she wasn't so much lying to her officers as eventually buying into her own lies to the crew.
I think I agree that we weren't given enough evidence of her character because I couldn't really see the shift to that, if that's what did happen. I felt like we weren't really allowed inside her head.
at first I thought maybe just too much got cut from the scene
Yeah me too. I do wonder what the longer DVD cut will be like.
I'm actually okay with it now because I do see what they were going for with the Lee/Cain parallel
Yeah, definitely--the whole structure of the movie was about that, so I'm willing to ride with it for narrative/plot purposes even if it feels a little forced.
They were both so caught up in the mission that it blinded them to the big picture. Like, well, "razors."
I don't think Lee lost sight of the big picture, I think it's the big picture that blinded him to hanging on to his humanity. I think he was too busy thinking of the ultimate overall strategic importance of the mission that he rushed into the 'destroy at all costs' thinking. Whereas Cain was blinded by her desire for vengeance. They have different end purposes but they're both willing to take casualties in the pursuit of it. It's the 'ends justify the means' thinking. Except they don't always, and it pays to try and see if there's another way first.
Not the seasoned vet. telling the kid "woah, hold up there!" But to me this makes sense for Lee because I think that his humanity has always been in tension with his military role in a way that it's not for, say, Adama and Kara.
Yes. *nods* I think that worked dramatically and from a Lee perspective I'm glad they turned our expectations around because I do think he's a very clear-sighted strategic thinker, and this was a good way to show both that strength and the inherent dangers in that too.
I can see how you say Kendra was tactically more important because she's the XO
No, it's not just that, it's also that there's a command structure for a reason and in the military it's respected at all costs--if Lee started protecting a friend over his XO there would be a lot of trouble in the ranks. Ditto, I think, if he ordered one of the marines to do it--I'm not sure but I think that would be taken very badly--like he was protecting his cabal of officers and sacrificing troops. But I'm shakier on that. Other people have made argued that point better than me.
For me, personally and how I instinctively made sense of that scene without the military details, it came down to Kendra being injured and also having a question mark over her loyalty and Lee knowing Kara was both fit enough and committed enough to do it.
I thought you told be that Lee sees Kara as the ultimate survivalist who will betray anyone to save her own skin?? So does this mean you two have changed your minds? ;)
Hee. Please note that when I made that comment (which you have exaggerated, btw!) to you I'd already seen Razor, so no, I don't take that back. I'm not sure how to explain it to you, except to say that Kara's always read to me as a hero character and an individualist. Her commitment to the military has been second to none in the risks she's taken, including with her own life. I've never been in any doubt that when faced with a life/death scenario, Kara would be willing to die. Willing, but not happy, if that makes any sense? And her reaction to Lee's order captures that perfectly. I never meant that she was someone who would put her own life above that of others, exactly, but I do think that if there is a chance, even the slimmest of chances, of survival without compromising her military loyalty, Kara will go for that chance with 200% of her energy. Make any sense? We see that in Razor when she blasts her way back in after Pegasus open fire. Showboat was all 'will that work?!' Kara didn't even stop to think--it didn't matter, but she was going to die trying. Dying trying, that's how I've always thought of Kara. And it's maybe why I found Maelstrom SO gutting--because she stopped trying to live.