Katee and Kara/Lee

[bop_radar]

Katee Sackhoff was interviewed at the Vulkon Women of SciFi event (proggrrl has posted links to video interviews from the event). One of the comments Katee made really threw me for a loop. I've been resisting posting about this all day, but I don't seem able to let it go.

So Katee says Kara loves Sam more than she loves Lee. This came as a real shock to me. I respect Sam's importance in Kara's life and I have no doubt that she loves him. I also would fully understand if Katee expressed the sentiment that Sam's healthier for Kara (I personally disagree, but it's understandable that Katee would be in the mindset of her character to this extent). But that she loves him more? I'm shocked. Season 3 was the first time I felt I really saw Kara's love for Lee shine through--in UB they seemed to be playing that Lee was really 'the one' after all, that Kara had only fled from the relationship out of fear and that she'd been drawn back to connect with him despite herself. Then, in Maelstrom, we saw her express her wistfulness that they would never be more than hotshot pilot and CAG. Lee was the last person she spoke to before death and the first person she spoke to on return. It all seemed to fit, but apparently that wasn't the way Kara saw it.

I've seen a lot of people shrugging off Katee's comments comfortably, and it's true that the actor's take on the character is not the be-all and end-all of what we'll see on the show. However, there are a couple of reasons why I find it hard not to take Katee's comment seriously:
- Firstly, Katee herself says she knows Starbuck better than anyone. The actors do seem to 'own' their characters in this way on the show. Jamie certainly does, and I always respect what he has to say about his character. So it goes against my instincts not to show Katee that same courtesy, not to defer to her opinion as well.
- Several people have mentioned Katee changing her story from interview to interview. However, I find it hard to believe that she wouldn't realise that saying Kara loves Sam more wouldn't be a big deal to a lot of fans. Furthermore, Katee fleshes it out quite a lot. She mentions being a little shocked by Sam's 'you're not the first' call to Lee--but not, as I was, shocked because I thought Lee was actually really significant to Kara, but shocked because she 'really really loves this guy (Sam)'. The implication is 'Kara wouldn't do that--she cares about Sam too much--it's only Lee she's a bit confused about, but she's sorted that out now too'.
- wisteria_ has an excellent post which explains why she's OK with Katee's comment and one of the things she points out is that Katee often expresses what Kara's mindset is at a given point in time. That seems true of what I've seen of Katee's interviews. However, if so, I misread Kara in the later half of this season (again!). And it does worry me that this is Kara's mindset going into Season 4. And this is where my Lee-protectiveness comes out...

Lee has lost everything in the later half of the season--his relationships have fallen apart or devolved even further into animosity than they were before, he's given up his role as CAG, he's lost Kara. He finds some core inner strength, it's true, but the only real shining light at the end of the season for Lee was Kara's resurrection. If not for that, I wouldn't have been surprised to see Lee push himself recklessly into that Cylon battle and either get killed or come back but get no acknowledgment for his efforts and return to the same lonely position he was in before he dived for the viper once again.

Dee's left Lee, but Kara has Sam to come back to--and apparently that's exactly what she wants to do. Presumably, then, Season 4 will be about Kara finding out Sam's a Cylon and struggling with that. It's the final season--that's not exactly going to allow much time for her to backflip again and suddenly decide it's Lee she really loves.

Just the other day, queenofthorns observed that most K/L shippers seem to be Kara fans (if they have to choose one character) rather than Lee fans. I count myself in the minority who'd choose Lee. I do love Kara, but she baffles and frustrates me, whereas my love for Lee stands independent of the ship. So now I'm just clinging to the hope that Lee gets lots of opportunity to show just how strong and awesome he can be in Season 4, sans Dee, sans Kara. (Though why they had Dee break up with him, if they're not going to get Kara and Lee together, I really don't know--she has no other plot! Why couldn't he keep Dee if Kara doesn't care? *pouts* They really love tearing Lee to pieces.)

The other thing about Katee's comments that I found truly baffling was the idea that Kara's love for Sam is more adult, that their relationship is more mature. Quote:
She’s known Lee forever, they’ve been friends forever, and I think she’s confusing that for what real adult companionship and love is.
Hmmm. This perplexes me at all sorts of levels. Citing the friendship suggests that it's romantic and/or sexual feelings that Kara's lacking for Lee--but I don't think there's any doubt that she's quite happy to frak him, and she seemed totally swept away on New Caprica (albeit briefly). On the other hand, she mentions 'companionship', which is a good point. It's true that there's a whole range of issues that Kara has that Lee doesn't know about, and she shuts him out of a lot, so although they are friends they don't have that kind of total intimacy. But I don't think she has that with Sam either. Sam offers her no-strings-attached sex but that's hardly companionship. Some would argue this has allowed Kara to open up to Sam in her own time--there may be a case in that seeing as she did discuss her childhood abuse with him in Maelstrom. But she also shuts him down and pushes him away quite coldly as soon as she's done with him (usually straight after sex). I'd hardly call that a mature relationship. And I'd be very uncomfortable with Sam allowing that to continue on a longterm basis--it's gone on long enough--if Kara really sees her love for Sam as 'real' and 'adult' then she needs to make it a proper marriage. There's got to be some give and take. I see Kara take from Sam, but I don't see any give. So saying her love for him shows greater maturity than her love for Lee makes little sense to me.

Anyway, since this set my teeth on edge, I'm burying myself in loving Lee and Lee alone. So you can expect even more determined pimping of how great Lee is from me! *plots Lee spam* For starters, this has given me more motivation than ever to make that Lee character study vid. *g*

On the other hand, I'd like to say a big thank you to the Kara fangirls who did their utmost to talk moe out of my tailspin to day: especially latteaddict and daybreak777. Really, I do appreciate it! Even if I'm still not convinced. ;-)

And last but not least, today also saw the launch of sasa_hq or 'Starbuck and Apollo Shippers Anonymous', for those of us who need support for that addiction... to quote the userinfo: 'Rather than trying to curb your obsession, SASA specializes in channelling it in healthy ways.' *lol*

Oh and someone needs to come over here and talk dionusia and I out of editing Sam out of our fannish creations as revenge. ;-)

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

You know, I still feel that Dees whole relationship with Lee may have been set up to demonstrate Lees state of mind at that time, I think that that is why the writers didn't give it much emphasis. Lee/dee was a (perhaps hamfisted) way of highlighting Lee's ongoing malaise. If He couldn't have what he wanted (read Kara) then he would take what was offered. I think he gave up to some extent. He didn't want to be alone. He's been in a lonely place I suspect for most of his life (emotionall abused (by alcoholic mother) elder child abandoned by father, and most likely in love with the one woman he thought he couldn't have - his brother's fiancee. Dee must have "seemed" secure and comforting to a vulnerable Lee when he had been rejected by Kara (there is no us! - scar and particularly after rejecting his open declaration of love on New Caprica) and she (Dee) certainly seemed to be making herself available. She was quite upfront with Lee if I can recall. Those moments have not been my favorites - hence no rewatch unless I can help it.

Re: "Lee's "You just don't understand" to Dee was the end of their marriage even if Kara had been there, happy with Sam. As Dee explains why she's walking out on him it hits him that if sticking to his ideals is the reason she can't be with him then she NEVER knew him."

I agree totally. You have put this really well. I hope that the writers put it this way as well (except for the Kara happy with sam bit....I really DON'T want to see that because I am a lee/kara shipper and proud of it!

I do hope that though that Dee gets a better deal from the writers (even though I am not a particular fan) but I hope that it is a story arc separate from Lee. I too would rather see Lee alone and continuing to develop as a character (as the end of season 3 seemed to promise), than simply enduring in a relationship where, despite superficial appearances, he and his partner are clearly incompatible (you don't understand...you never did".

oops

[smact46.livejournal.com]

Ok so I have really muffed up my posts today. Anonymous post is actually smact post mark 2 which is the post I really meant to submit. I just wanted to clear that up before media watch intervenes. Anyone else as confused as I am?

Pilots are messing with my brain!!!!

Re: oops

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

*giggles* It's ok... we all get confused at times. *nods*

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

I hope Dee gets a better deal from the writers too, i.e. a plot without Lee. If they're going to keep her on the show then they should give her a non-romantic plot for once, imo. I quite like her friendship with Helo--that's really the only other relationship she's been shown to have this season. Even the Admiral seems to be ignoring her, despite the fact that she's his daughter-in-law now. I guess once you're an 'official' Adama, he feels there's no need to 'parent' you. *snerk*

And it goes without saying that I want Lee to have strong story arcs on his own. ;-)

[asta77.livejournal.com]

I've commented in several of my posts over the past couple of years that Lee has, if not a fear of ending up alone, a real desire to avoid it happening. He was estranged from his father, had an abusive, distant mother, he lost his brother (who I think we can all assume he was close to), and something always seemed to prevent him from being with Kara. Now he has Dee who is practically throwing herself at him, telling him she loves him and wants to be with him, and who refuses to leave even when pushed. So if he believed he only had two choices, be alone and miserable, or be with this person who loves him and try to love her back (and I believe he wanted to love her because, yes, in many ways she was good for him), I can't really condemn him for what he did (the sort of affair with Kara is another story).