perhaps we're both fundamentally pessimistic, but while I ship Kara/Sam, and shipper credo requires that I never give up all hope Goodness! Does it? No-one told me! I've very rarely held any hope for Kara/Lee. I pretty much expect nothing from my ship. The rare exception was that I did think things looked pretty promising at the end of Season 3 and then was in complete denial about their final kiss. The penny's dropped now. I'm back to complete pessismism. :) My ship is doomed.
refers to the alliance she helped found That would be easier for me to stomach.
I'm sure Sam will father it right before he dies and she and Lee will fight over whether to name it Samuel Adama or Samuel Thrace. EEEEEK! I hope that never happens. Lee deserves better than Sam's leftovers. (Even though I actually think he likes Sam now--I just don't think he'd ever think it appropriate to step in Sam's place. Ever.)
Jamie Bamber may have said it was final, but actors contradict themselves all the time. Jamie doesn't. I've always found him completely clear-sighted about his character.
, whereas with Sam whenever they're together she's been caught up in her mission, and shutting everybody out. This is true. I know she's been shutting Sam out, but I think that's part of her journey at the moment. As you say: she's shutting everyone out. But I think what she's about to face will show her that she can't do it completely alone. Sam's going to be there and he's going to reveal he's a Cylon, and then he's going to offer her hope--because if someone she loves is a Cylon, then is it really so bad to ally with them? Didn't you point out that they only set up the Kara 'I would shoot you if you were a Cylon' thing in order to debunk it later?
I think it's got to be a Kara/Lee endgame People seem to believe this 'just because'. In your case, I think you're just naturally pessimistic about your ship. ;) I just don't see why K/L would be on the cards, when Kara's plot is entirely about Cylons.
at first I was surprised to see her so moved at the Six's pain, but then she reaches for her sidearm. She can't ultimately do it, but she was thinking of killing Sam, I think I rewatched. You are right. I think that's the only explanation too.
I think the purpose of the scene was to show us that the two leaders will do anything, even turn on those they love (and I do think the Six/Six kiss was meant to show love, though it came off to many as pandering) for this thing that's taking place. Now that you've shown me the Kara parallel (which I definitely missed the first time round), I can see that is what the scene was meant to show us. It didn't work successfully for me because I don't buy that the Six needed to die. But I think that's what the intention of the scene was.
Now, I agree that Six could have disarmed Sam, since she got control of the gun, so it doesn't really work. But I think that's a writing mistake, if I'm right about what they were going for. Yup, I think it was just a writing mistake.
the more important point was what you said: Ron wants us to think it was necessary. Just like in Razor, Ron said he didn't feel they had fully justified Lee's decision - and I felt that way too - I ultimately decided for the sake of my sanity to just say, in the world of the show, this was necessary. Nice parallel. And yes, for all that I vehemently oppose Sam's actions, I do think the more important point is that TPTB wanted us to think they were necessary. I guess I'm just finding myself at odds with their intention about 80 per cent of the time in season 4. It's like I can see how things are meant to work on me (I'm meant to think Sam's actions were 'necessary', I'm meant to think this Six 'had' to die), but I just don't get that organically. It's very kind of you all to help me work through it afterwards: it just kind of sucks that I don't get this directly from the show, you know? That's why I'm feeling so out of kilter with the show. I watch every ep and I can see TPTB pulling the strings, except I'm not attached to any of them in the right way...
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
branchandroot
Re: part 1 (sorry I got long)
Date: 2008-05-12 11:53 am (UTC)Goodness! Does it? No-one told me! I've very rarely held any hope for Kara/Lee. I pretty much expect nothing from my ship. The rare exception was that I did think things looked pretty promising at the end of Season 3 and then was in complete denial about their final kiss. The penny's dropped now. I'm back to complete pessismism. :) My ship is doomed.
refers to the alliance she helped found
That would be easier for me to stomach.
I'm sure Sam will father it right before he dies and she and Lee will fight over whether to name it Samuel Adama or Samuel Thrace.
EEEEEK! I hope that never happens. Lee deserves better than Sam's leftovers. (Even though I actually think he likes Sam now--I just don't think he'd ever think it appropriate to step in Sam's place. Ever.)
Jamie Bamber may have said it was final, but actors contradict themselves all the time.
Jamie doesn't. I've always found him completely clear-sighted about his character.
, whereas with Sam whenever they're together she's been caught up in her mission, and shutting everybody out.
This is true. I know she's been shutting Sam out, but I think that's part of her journey at the moment. As you say: she's shutting everyone out. But I think what she's about to face will show her that she can't do it completely alone. Sam's going to be there and he's going to reveal he's a Cylon, and then he's going to offer her hope--because if someone she loves is a Cylon, then is it really so bad to ally with them? Didn't you point out that they only set up the Kara 'I would shoot you if you were a Cylon' thing in order to debunk it later?
I think it's got to be a Kara/Lee endgame
People seem to believe this 'just because'. In your case, I think you're just naturally pessimistic about your ship. ;) I just don't see why K/L would be on the cards, when Kara's plot is entirely about Cylons.
at first I was surprised to see her so moved at the Six's pain, but then she reaches for her sidearm. She can't ultimately do it, but she was thinking of killing Sam, I think
I rewatched. You are right. I think that's the only explanation too.
I think the purpose of the scene was to show us that the two leaders will do anything, even turn on those they love (and I do think the Six/Six kiss was meant to show love, though it came off to many as pandering) for this thing that's taking place.
Now that you've shown me the Kara parallel (which I definitely missed the first time round), I can see that is what the scene was meant to show us. It didn't work successfully for me because I don't buy that the Six needed to die. But I think that's what the intention of the scene was.
Now, I agree that Six could have disarmed Sam, since she got control of the gun, so it doesn't really work. But I think that's a writing mistake, if I'm right about what they were going for.
Yup, I think it was just a writing mistake.
the more important point was what you said: Ron wants us to think it was necessary. Just like in Razor, Ron said he didn't feel they had fully justified Lee's decision - and I felt that way too - I ultimately decided for the sake of my sanity to just say, in the world of the show, this was necessary.
Nice parallel. And yes, for all that I vehemently oppose Sam's actions, I do think the more important point is that TPTB wanted us to think they were necessary. I guess I'm just finding myself at odds with their intention about 80 per cent of the time in season 4. It's like I can see how things are meant to work on me (I'm meant to think Sam's actions were 'necessary', I'm meant to think this Six 'had' to die), but I just don't get that organically. It's very kind of you all to help me work through it afterwards: it just kind of sucks that I don't get this directly from the show, you know? That's why I'm feeling so out of kilter with the show. I watch every ep and I can see TPTB pulling the strings, except I'm not attached to any of them in the right way...