BSG: Razor

[bop_radar]

I'm friendslocking this, at least until others have seen 'Razor'. This post is as spoilery as you can get. Seriously don't click if you don't want to know. ETA: unlocked now

Wow. Razor was heavy. I found it very powerful but very dark. (Can you even say that about an individual BSG episode?! The whole show's dark!) I had some misgivings (I'll get to them) and I wanted to like it even more than I did because I found the the premise interesting and the storytelling compelling. It's given me tons to digest and I'd totally forgotten the feeling of having BSG 'butterflies' in my stomach. Oh, the insomnia. I'd forgotten that too! In short, I need to write my way through this in the same way I need to after a regular episode.

Kendra's story
I think Razor worked really well as a standalone piece--Kendra's story was a powerful one and her narrative provided the structure. I liked the character: she had an odd reserve to her that was quietly powerful and she seemed to hold her own counsel in a way that made her inscrutable. She ultimately lived and died by her own conscience, making decisions that were incredibly difficult to live with as well as at least one that was extremely heroic. I liked the restraint in her character a lot--she was haunted by her actions but she carried that privately. Even her drug use wasn't over-dramatised.

Her assertion is that you are the choices you make--that theme was explored on many levels in Razor and it's not easy to either dismiss or agree totally with her assessment. We're given only small details about Kendra's past life, or that of any of the other Pegasus officers, Cain included. We're invited to judge them purely on their actions post the attacks. Before the attacks, Kendra appears hesitant. She's ridiculed by Cain and we really don't get a sense of how well she will perform her duties. After the attacks we quickly see that she's got excellent observational skills and is quick-acting. She correctly detects the reason for the Pegasus surviving the attacks and ensures their continued survival. Although she makes mistakes (giving the codes to Gina) she also makes up for them by acting swiftly as soon as she realises the threat that Gina poses.

I really loved the scene between her and Lee when he offered her the XO position. I liked her calm honesty. Lee is obviously at least slightly angered by her assessment of him (hee!) but he composes himself and offers her the XO position. It's a sensible tactical decision but the personal connection is still missing. Kendra doesn't let him 'in'--she doesn't let him see who she is in any sense other than her actions, and by cutting herself off emotionally like this (snapping the case shut, etc) she makes herself a very isolated figure who is hard to predict. It's hard to blame her for this: she is, as she says, Cain's legacy. The culture that Cain created made it sensible for Kendra to remain emotionally withdrawn, only letting others see her hard edges. When Adama talks to Lee about 'trust', he comments that they trust each other to do their jobs. That's as far as it goes--surface only.

This comes up when Lee asks her about the attacks on the civilian ship. If it's true that we are defined by our actions then Kendra is defined by something she didn't volunteer personally but was recorded in the log (another running theme of the episode--who gets to control the way events are recorded). If Lee assessed her only on these past actions he wouldn't have trusted her on the mission. She gets another chance, and it's one that leads to redemption for her. She may assert that there are 'no do-overs' but Razor also shows that you can always make different, better decisions the next time around.

It's obvious that Cain was a huge influence on Kendra's life following the attacks. From the moment she slapped her back into consciousness, Kendra seems determined to live up to Cain's demands. She's obviously someone who responds well to being challenged in this way and she appears receptive to Cain's message to hang on to her anger to stop her from being afraid ever again. The problem with Cain's influence is that she teaches them not only not to listen to their fear but also not to listen to their conscience.

Aside on trust
In any discussion about trust around this time, it's impossible for me not to reflect on Lee's speech to Kara when she appealed to him to back her up in assassinating Cain. He said that if they don't have trust they don't have anything. I think this is both true and not true, as the events that unfolded following that proclamation show. Circumstances can interfere, and as soon as Lee crashed the Blackbird, it didn't matter whether they had trust or not: he wouldn't be there for Kara. In the end, it's his actions (or non-actions) that speak for who he is, as Kendra suggests.

On the other side of the argument, we see in Razor a clear contrast between Lee and Kara who have a close relationship that despite all odds sustains unbelievable pressure. Kara's life is at stake several times as a result of decisions Lee makes or supports but the two of them retain an air of having an intimate understanding of one another. She's even able to joke about it when she tells him she's requested to be reassigned. Can you call that trust? It's not trust that they won't put each other's lives at stake if the military situation demands it. It's not trust that they won't fight, argue and hate each other at times. But there's a tie binding them despite all that. But when it comes down to it Lee trusts Kara to complete the mission--but fate decides otherwise.

The message from this seems to be very fatalistic--you can place your faith in trust but it can be torn from you or turned on it's head.

Kendra and Kara: parallels and contrast
I think there's a wealth of interesting material in comparing Kendra and Kara. I was interested to note some parallels between them: both have dominant mothers who are dead/dying, both have past interests outside of the soldier's life (Kendra's a lapsed classics major, Kara's an artist). The parallels in the personality stakes are far more obvious. Both are tough and wilful and demand respect from others. However where Kara is inclined to emotional explosions and mouthing off, Kendra is silent, bordering on sullen.

I thought Lee joking about the two of them not getting along was really cute. That seems obvious--two such forceful personalities would be bound to clash and Kara seems to have viewed her as a rival, or at least someone to impress, right from the start. The fact that Kendra seemed completely unfased probably got under her skin. And as is shown it's not really a problem until a decision is made that the other disagrees with. In this case, it's even worse since it directly endangered Kara.

Of course I also liked that Lee calmly defended Kara when Kendra criticised her chatter on the comm system. He knows that Kara's flying makes her other behaviour worth tolerating and clearly Kendra too comes to respect Kara's skill, choosing her for her mission.

The scene between Kendra and Kara in the kitchen was brilliant. Kara's quick to jump on the similarity of their position. She finds common ground with Kendra so that they'll keep each other's secrets. But she also acts as if she's the dominant one in their relationship. I think there's a subtle air of her making a point of her closeness to Lee--she uses his first name, calling Kendra 'Lee's new XO'. The message is 'I've got Lee's ear and I could get you demoted'. Kendra is unflapped, of course. I liked her retort of calling Kara 'Lee's favourite pilot' (hmm, interesting phrasing--not 'Lee's CAG'). It felt like Kendra was replying 'yeah, I know you're his pet pilot but you don't scare me'.

Also I thought Kara looked adorably pretty in that scene. *shallow*

It was interesting to see Kara respond with such vehemence to Kendra's assassination of the man who got captured by the Centurions. While my sympathies are largely with Kara on this (it hadn't been previously discussed and Kendra was reckless in making this her priority--staying in a vulnerable position and getting shot herself), I thought it was interesting in light of Kara's experience on the Cylon farms. She herself will later ask Anders to kill her rather than let her be taken to the farms again. So she's not totally unsympathetic to Kendra's feelings, surely? It seems like she was more just taking issue with Kendra making that call herself without clear direction from their commander.

I love that Kendra gave Kara her knife. And while I hated Cain and what Cain had done to Kendra, I did find Kendra's final re-enactment of Cain's gunpoint orders very poignant. I also felt it was something Kara herself would do under other circumstances. The 'it's been an honour, captain' made me cry on second viewing. I suppose Kara carrying Cain's knife could be read as her carrying Cain's legacy. I'd prefer to think of it as her carrying Kendra's memory, because in the end Kendra redeemed herself, Cain never did.

Helena Cain
I had mixed feelings about seeing Cain's actions in Razor since in many ways I'd found her very powerful as an ambiguous figure. I liked that we weren't ever completely sure how true all the rumours were about her. To some degree seeing her here demystified her in a way I wasn't initially comfortable with. And wow, she really was a bitch! I have resisted viewing her in a truly negative light for a long time but it was hard to do so after this. Even before the attacks started, she was an rendered an unsympathetic character (to me, at least) by her ritual humiliation of Kendra. She's introduced as a workaholic, an eternally driven woman who when invited to 'get off the treadmill' for a break, just drives herself harder; she's also someone who takes deliberate pleasure in dominating and humiliating others, at least emotionally, as we see with Kendra. These traits shape the decisions she makes after the attacks: she acts without consulting others and with a 'dominate or die' mentality that allows no pity.

While Razor does show that the Pegasus was in a very different position to Galactica, it also shows us that her commander was made of very different material as well and ultimately she set the tone for the culture for the entire ship and made a particularly lasting impression on her officers.

One complaint I have is that we didn't get to really see why Cain's crew admired her so much. The music montage at around the twenty-minute mark didn't cut it for me. Seeing her pat a few shoulders and linger over the dead was obviously an attempt to make her seem more human, as well as to show her as a well-tempered leader. However, I felt that this was greatly outweighed by seeing her act as a tyrant. Personally I needed more if I was to be at all sympathetic to her leadership style. This felt a little tokenistic.

While I'm mentioning the things I didn't like so much, I'll say that I found her crew bizarrely passive in response to the news that the colonies have been destroyed. It's hard for me to imagine that there wouldn't be massive emotional outbursts from at least some of the crew. I know that's difficult to show dramatically, but it just felt a little too easy that they all just listened and bought into Cain's 'don't run and hide' speech. Especially since she was asking them to digest, in a space of 30 seconds, the fact that they had to fight to their deaths.

I thought the speech itself did a lot to explain Cain's position. The choices facing the Pegasus were impossible ones. They were in a completely different situation to the Galactica because they didn't have a civilian fleet or any potential to survive the attacks. When faced with the choice of running and probably being killed anyway or at least waiting to die, or fighting, Cain decided to sell fighting to her crew as a positive alternative--she made it a valiant choice. This far, she held my respect. She lost it when she lied o her officers. She shows herself as a masterful manipulator there--giving her crew a rousing speech, but keeping her officers on side by claiming she won't be reckless, while secretly planning to push for revenge at all costs.

She completely lost it when she murdered an officer who stood in her way and began what was effectively a reign of terror. While Adama may say to Lee that Cain's circumstances were different because she didn't have people like Laura and Lee to remind him of moral and social imperatives, it overlooks the fact that she shot in the head the first person who voiced any such concerns about the weight of human life.

We then see her go on to even greater acts of tyranny. Her revenge on Gina is of the most brutal and extreme nature, going out of her way to emphasise humiliation. This has no tactical purpose--it's pure terrorisation. When they encounter civilian ships, Cain appears to be the only one who doesn't greet it as cause for hope and elation. She sees not the human face, only the possibility of restocking for her own personal war on the Cylons. Her officers follow her orders despite not feeling the same way themselves. No doubt they fear assassination if they voice their true feelings.

The 'Razor' speech itself was very powerful. It's an articulate description of Cain's position and it shows what Kendra bought into. She carried the knife with her as a symbol of that philosophy. While I think it was well expressed, that speech still revolted me, because I'm one of those people who'd rather choose to die at a certain point than live making decisions that result in the deaths of others. While Cain may have been able to live comfortably by those rules, it exacts a toll on Kendra, as I think it would on anyone.

Lee's command
Lee is obviously set up in contrast to Cain. He admits this honestly up front to Kendra and he tells her clearly that he doesn't respect Cain's legacy. Unlike Cain he shares with her the way he hopes to lead the crew. In this way he's more honest with his officers than the crew at large--he wants to send them a message that Cain is respected. Cain, on the other hand, was actually more honest in her speech to the crew at large than to her officers.

The story-telling of Razor depends on drawing comparisons between Lee and Cain and how they respond in different scenarios. Sometimes I found these a little forced, though I can't fault the writers' intentions. The first of these is the search and rescue mission where Kara and Showboat engage with the Cylons. In this instance Kendra takes issue with Lee's defensive position. The situation here would seem to support a more offensive tactic--if they'd launched attack vipers and engaged perhaps they wouldn't have had to fire at close range. However, I don't think that's something Lee could have known in advance and he had adopted a firm line in not pursuing unnecessary engagement. There are pros and cons to both decisions.

We see in flashback that Cain takes the opposite tactical decision--when faced with a clear Cylon trap she considers it 'all the more reason to launch everything we've got'. Where Lee could be criticised for being too cautious, Cain is too impulsive.

Lee cites duty, honour and service as the guiding principles for those serving in the military. In Razor I think he follows these himself, but they exact an incredibly high cost. They demand that he make tough decisions, just as Cain did. Kendra challenges him by saying that Cain 'wouldn't have blinked' about her risky plan. Lee does 'blink', at least metaphorically, but he's not any weaker for doing so: his actions speak loud and clear that he's willing to do whatever it takes to complete the mission successfully, including sacrificing his best friend. Anyone who thinks that was an easy decision for Lee to make is kidding themselves. It's easy to read Lee as 'soft' sometimes because he's a thinker, he deliberates and he doesn't play the hardball dominating games of Cain or Kara or Kendra or Tigh. His source of strength is far more internalised and in this way I think he has something in common with Kendra.

Cain tells Kendra that 'sometimes we have to leave people behind so that we can go on, so that we can fight'. This issue is reflected in Lee's experience in command of the Pegasus when he's faced with the mission to recover their men from the failed Cylon experiment. He has to, as Cain describes, do things that he never thought he was capable of.

I wasn't very happy with seeing Lee deciding to nuke the mission after they lost contact. I can see the tactical reasoning and in some ways I'm proud to see him having the guts to make it. However it was the one part of Razor that felt really forced to me. Ron Moore seems a little too fond of having the Adamas point nukes at people they love, if you ask me! I didn't like it in Eye of Jupiter and I didn't like it here. It felt rushed and unnecessarily melodramatic. Bill is right (I don't often say that!)--it's a last resort but Lee starts preparing for it, just as Bill himself will do in EoJ. Bleugh. I think what I don't like about it in this case is that when you weigh up why it was written this way, it just seems an overblown way of pushing the point the writers are making, comparing Lee and Cain. And I don't think it needed to be pushed that far--the later decision that Lee makes to leave Kara behind to complete the mission is powerful enough, imho. But I guess Ron just wanted to dial up the drama.

And it did make good drama--Adama senior overruling Lee, and Lee asking what he'll do if he's wrong. He would have had to live with it, but he's already been haunted for forty years. He knows he can live with it. Lee doesn't know if he can and he's making hard decision that will haunt him to avoid being haunted by another. As usual he takes the big picture approach and argues with his father that it could be headed for Earth. Bill, however, is determined to hang on, and his decision to do so is validated by them regaining contact with the mission team. It's all a little convenient and Bill gets to play hero again.

Of course my heart bled for Lee in those circumstances. Forced writing or not, I'm glad they showed his strengths as a leader and the way in which his leadership is of a different nature both to Cain's and his father's. They're put in similar positions and they all make hard decisions but the way in which they do so is different. And I would argue that that matters. That it's not just one's actions but the way they're carried out that defines who you are. Cain acts from a position of self-centred emotion--anger driving her to revenge and violence. Lee's point of focus is outside himself--he looks at the big picture, at the survival of the entire race, at overall strategy, and lets that dictate him. In doing so both compromise their humanity. If things had played out how Lee would have had them, he would have lived forever with Kara's death on his conscience, as well as the rest of the crew. It would have been hell personally but he'd have felt he'd still made the 'right' decision. I doubt that would make it that much easier to live with for him though. So I think Razor was effective in showing the way that war, and command positions in particular, force people to dehumanise themesleves and their experiences. Lee goes in with much better intentions than Cain's and I consider the basis for his decision making far more sound. But the end result--the sacrifice of crew members--is the same. Where they differ is in the context of how they handle it and and their consciences.

ETA: It struck me last night that the main reason they wrote in the 'nuking' part was to show the contrast between Bill and Lee. I suspect they wanted to show that as Bill has benefitted from having his son around to balance him, Lee benefits from having his father's experience in a time like this. Unlike Cain, they both allow the other person to challenge them and the end result is good. I like that message but I feel the execution of it was forced.

I didn't have as much issue with Lee asking Kara to complete the mission. That worked for me better than the nuking plot because it felt so much clearer that they really did need someone to stay behind. And she was the best choice on many levels. She was in the best physical shape, but she wasn't the senior officer--Kendra was tactically more important. Also--and here's the tear-your-heart-out part--Kara was the one Lee could most trust to complete it. I loved Jamie's and Katee's performances. Their mirrored facial grimaces conveyed how gutting this was for both of them. But Lee's decision was validated by Kara immediately leaping into action. Damn, that girl's a hero! In choosing her, Lee could be absolutely sure that the bomb would be detonated.

Kara and Lee
I thought Kara's 'no but it will make you feel better' was brilliant. I also thought that it was natural of her to be angry after that experience. Where she crossed a line was in criticising Kendra directly. I thought this was an interesting scene because it showed that although they're close, Lee doesn't always know how to handle Kara. He argues with her directly when I think it would have been more effective to sympathise with her feeling attacked but steer the conversation away from generalising about Kendra's authority. His personal appeal to her, grabbing her shoulders, while it made my shippy heart happy, didn't really do anything to calm her down. It sent a message that she was being unreasonable and that probably pushed her even more into wanting to confront Kendra directly.

It's really interesting to compare her actions here with the way she deals with Lee putting her in the line of fire later on. His actions are far more extreme--he personally assigns her to be the one to stay behind, sacrificing her life to destroy the station. But Kara's response is so much more subdued. Perhaps she flipped out at Lee offscreen, I don't know. But all we see in Razor is her telling him she's requested a transfer. It's obviously upset her and left her uncomfortable with her position as his CAG, but she does him the courtesy of telling him directly and without direct criticism of his decisions.

There was a remarkable intimacy to that scene that was reminiscent of 'Maelstrom' for me. The surface jokiness was at odds with the dark undercurrents. Kara suggests that Kendra thought she had a lot to answer for or 'she had it coming'. Lee replies to only one half of that ('we've all got it coming') but I think he also means 'we've all got a lot to answer for'. I can't believe that Lee said 'you ever think you might deserve it?' Well ok. I can believe it because it's these two and they are just THAT frakked up that they can joke about it. They both know they live a heartbeat away from death daily.

Gina
Gina was one of the best aspects of Razor for me. I always found her character fascinating and I love seeing Tricia get to play outside the role of Six. She's a completely different character here, but she was played to chilling effect. The audience know that she's a Cylon so there were a lot of very creepy moments where we could see what the other characters could not. Lines like 'we're all human' or 'the best defense is a good offense' were particularly spine-tingly. I liked that Kendra made the observation about Gina's name meaning resurrection, and that she clued on to her relationship with Cain. I also appreciated that in some ways the viciousness of the attacks on Gina are explained. The betrayal was a deeply personal one. I don't think excuses it in ANY WAY. Rather, it reveals Cain's character in it's purest, most vicious form. But it does paint a fuller picture of how that came about. *shudders*

Again the theme of trust comes up here--Cain considers it more important than the access codes. It certainly makes her anger at the betrayal far more personal. Trust is dangerous because it can be broken, because it's a risk.

The reveals in Razor obviously make Cain's death at Gina's hand a lot more powerful as well--she created that situation herself and in the end it was not the conflict from outside her own ship that ended her life but the one from within it. Is there a more generalised message in this? Revenge begets revenge, perhaps? But also a message about those closest to us being our greatest threat, that the damage we wreak on a personal emotional level can have consequences just as dangerous to us as that we wreak on a bigger scale. That's interesting ground for speculation leading into Season four, especially with the suggestion that Kara may be a harbinger of destruction.

How Razor fits with the overall narrative
Firstly, and on a positive note, I think it adds greater resonance to Lee's sacrifice of Pegasus to save New Caprica to actually see him during his first period in command.

I also thought that the flashbacks to the first Cylon war were integrated really well. The actor who played Bill was excellent and it was really great payoff to see him integrated into Razor as well as the webisodes. One of the things I appreciated most of all was getting textual explanation of why Bill was able to guess that the Cylons had taken human form in the Pilot. I always thought it was odd that he was able to guess so easily--now it makes perfect sense.

Finally Kara and that scary scary prophecy. Oh, wow. The harbinger of death? The herald of the apocalypse? I know Lee's wanted to call her a few names sometimes, but nothing that bad! ;) It freaked me the hell out and I'm still digesting it. The first things that spring to mind are that this is probably the lead-in to a Season 4 exploration of whether she's a force for good or evil--is she Aurora bringing the dawn, or is she bringing death to all? The theory that the Final Four are the four horsemen of the apocalypse also has more resonance now. On the other hand, can a Cylon 'God' be trusted?

If Kara IS a threat, then Kendra nearly saved her crew (and humanity) a second time by revealing a traitor in their midst. That would fit with the themes of Razor very neatly but a) it's too horrible to contemplate easily and b) it seems too easy, maybe? too obvious? I'm sure there will be more twists ahead in this plot than a simple 'Kara bad!' for the whole of Season 4. I've got pit-of-my-stomach fear about it any way. If Kara is a threat, Lee will go down with her, despite the fact that he nearly sacrificed her here. That kind of painful irony is what BSG has been built on so far. I just hope there's a light at the end of this tunnel...

'You are stuck with me to the end' was beautiful, so beautiful, but in light of the revelations about Kara it also had a chilly undertone.

Kara Thrace, if you must have a special destiny, please let it be a good one, because my Lee is bound to you and I trust you to lead him home.

Trust is dangerous.

Comments

[asta77.livejournal.com]

I can't read yet, but I'm printing it out to remind me to read and reply later. :)

[brokenmnemonic.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this - it looks like I may be seeing Razor sooner than I intended, and now I can go in forewarned. I see what you mean by melodrama; RDM does seem to like to rush towards artificially generated shock moments, rather than letting things grow organically.

It sounds as if there's going to be plenty for the Lee-haters to seize on and vilify him over. I can also see a whole round of shredding again from the "Lee doesn't love or deserve Kara and her awesomeness" faction - all those who've never understood the idea that missions/duty could possibly come ahead of Kara if Lee really loved her, and will most likely cite Kara asking for a transfer before then later rushing off to get Anders as vindication of this.

It's going to be a long couple of years in fandom.

[canadiangirl-86.livejournal.com]

Whoa, excellent review/discussion. You've touched on a lot of the same things I did but yours has a lot more depth than mine! I think you've really helped add even more to the ep for me, so thank you! I don't have time to comment extensively on this now but I will tonight!

Overall, though, I'm with you on the fact that it definitely helps me understand Lee more than I ever had before. Which is nice.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

If you'll feel more comfortable being forewarned then I am really glad I could help. D

plenty for the Lee-haters to seize on
There is but when is there not? And it was a great performance from Jamie. I am looking forward to the extended version just so I can see more of it--I also hope it turns out the 'rushed' feeling is because there was more to the whole comms-failure thing than 30 seconds of no contact. ;)

- all those who've never understood the idea that missions/duty could possibly come ahead of Kara if Lee really loved her
Right. Whereas I actually found this explored an incredibly deep bond between them. It's a very very dark reading but it seems like they trust each other to death. When Lee asked Kara to complete the mission she, well ok she DID flinch but you could see that there was never a second of not going to do it--it was a 'oh gods, he's really ordering this' flinch.

On a selfish note I'm glad you're going to watch it. *hugs* It's very powerful. Not flawless but fascinating nonetheless.

Oh and it's totally induced my insomnia again. ;)

[sadface.livejournal.com]

Was it worth watching? I have become curious. :|

[latteaddict.livejournal.com]

*raises hand* that would be me.

I have a written exactly how Lee's decisions affected me and what I think it means for the Lee/Kara 'ship. But if it makes you feel better to unilaterally declare anyone who didn't enjoy/like/appreciate/understand/support Lee's actions as a Lee-hater then be my guest.

I don't hate Lee, but I can certainly hate his actions for pointing a gun at Kara's head.

And Lee's decision to choose Kara to be the one to die was totally not necessary. It was a preference he had and he made it easily and swiftly. And I have a lot to say on the subject. And no, it's not a rant. But I do feel that Kara's first instinct to quickly get as far from Lee as possible was the wisest thing she ever did. *run Kara run*

[latteaddict.livejournal.com]

I can't believe that Lee said 'you ever think you might deserve it?'

shall we add that to Lee's wanting to hold open the airlock for her?

Lee's such a charmer.

My take on Lee ordering Kara to stay behind is completely opposite to yours. To me the most logical person was Mathias. Lee knew Mathias from Galactica and she's a trustworthy officer. Kendra was XO, but Kara is the CAG and the best Viper pilot and one of the last legitimate flight instructors. Kara's value was much higher in pure military terms that Mathias. So personal feelings aside, Lee's choice of using Kara was completely wrong in my opinion. I have written why I think he chose Kara in my write-up which I'll be posting later.

I haven't given the Cain, Kendra arcs that much thought because I didn't really find their stories very compelling. It was just a rehash of what we already knew about Pegasus. The only new thing was that Cain was a Lesbian. Nothing to stop the presses for.

Pilots on the other hand have freaked me out.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

You are funny! Yes, it was. But it was REALLY dark and has freaked me out.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Sigh.

I was freaked out by Razor but for different reasons to you. I'll respond to your post as well but I'll say one thing here:

Lee knew Mathias from Galactica and she's a trustworthy officer.
There's a big difference between knowing someone's a good officer and knowing they would lay down their life if you asked them to. Lee had to be absolutely certain the person he chose would do that--the ONLY person he trusts that much is Kara. And I think he's right. It takes someone with an extreme degree of willpower and also a fatalistic streak, someone who is willing to accept this is the end of the line for them. I think the fact that Kara was going to do it makes Kara exceptional. Mathias may be trustworthy in all normal circumstances but we have no evidence that she's exceptional.

I see it as a very dark sign of how much Lee trusted and loved Kara that he chose her. It was only his closeness to her that allowed him to know she would do it.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Thanks Jo! I'm off to read your thoughts now. *excited* I'm really glad to hear it helped you understand Lee more.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Yay! I am desperate to read your thoughts. I'm quite haunted by this one--so much to think about.

[canadiangirl-86.livejournal.com]

Her assertion is that you are the choices you make--that theme was explored on many levels in Razor and it's not easy to either dismiss or agree totally with her assessment.

Sigh. I have a feeling Lee would strongly agree with Kendra on this one, unfortunately for him. But maybe by Crossroads he finally felt like it was something he could change for himself, if he wanted to. He could choose to be the person he wants to be.

Anyone who thinks that was an easy decision for Lee to make is kidding themselves.

Completely agree. I think this may be one of the points that will get Lee attacked once everyone has seen Razor. He keeps his emotions so close to the chest that, unless you really get the character, you won't see the turmoil he's in.

I wasn't very happy with seeing Lee deciding to nuke the mission after they lost contact. I can see the tactical reasoning and in some ways I'm proud to see him having the guts to make it. However it was the one part of Razor that felt really forced to me.

Yeah, I haven't decided yet what my take on this whole thing is. I suppose I can see both sides, but I'm trying to take into account the fact that torture and horrific experimentation by the cylons was a distinct possibility had the rescue team been captured. So it wasn't just about destroying this thing for the sake of Earth but also for the team itself. For Kara.

You're probably right though that his later order for Kara most likely would have been dramatic enough to last us for a while. Heh.

Also--and here's the tear-your-heart-out part--Kara was the one Lee could most trust to complete it.

I really like the emphasis you've placed on trust in this instance, because I don't think that it entered my mind as much as it should have. It's so beautifully tragic that his absolute trust in her could also be the cause of such irreparable harm. Even more so because she didn't have to go through with it.

It sent a message that she was being unreasonable and that probably pushed her even more into wanting to confront Kendra directly.

Really nice read on the scene. He should know better than to get Lee-ish (TM me) on her ass while she's that emotionally volatile. You're supposed to BACK AWAY, MAN!

His actions are far more extreme--he personally assigns her to be the one to stay behind, sacrificing her life to destroy the station. But Kara's response is so much more subdued.

An obvious testament to how much she trusts and respects Lee, and how much she appreciates the fact that it's not an easy decision for him to make. Unfortunately for Kendra, she didn't earn Kara's respect in time to receive the same benefit of the doubt.

There was a remarkable intimacy to that scene that was reminiscent of 'Maelstrom' for me. The surface jokiness was at odds with the dark undercurrents.

Ah, see I compared it to Captain's Hand but Maelstrom is a much better comparison. I can handle the joking because I know that they both get each other on such a fundamental level that they don't always need to say what they're really thinking/feeling. That's not to say that it wouldn't be healthy once in a while to actually be serious. *G*

If Kara is a threat, Lee will go down with her, despite the fact that he nearly sacrificed her here.

Oh! I really hope part of the purpose of the K/L story in Razor was to build up to this possibility, because I love it. I think Lee's given her up one too many times over the years and he's frakkin' done, greater good or not! He's proven himself to the Greater Good, now he needs to prove himself to Kara.

Kara Thrace, if you must have a special destiny, please let it be a good one, because my Lee is bound to you and I trust you to lead him home.

*tear* That was beautiful!

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

maybe by Crossroads he finally felt like it was something he could change for himself, if he wanted to. He could choose to be the person he wants to be.
Maybe... I'm pretty depressed for Lee right now, still digesting the fact that he's been carrying this added burden all this time. We know from Crossroads that he holds all these things on his conscience so tightly--his speech on the witness stand is testimony to that.

He keeps his emotions so close to the chest that, unless you really get the character, you won't see the turmoil he's in.
Yes, it was played very tightly but it was there. Jamie's performance was excellent, I felt. But it's going to be really easy for people NOT to see that. I do hope the extended version shows us more of his struggle--because I think that will be necessary for many fans.

it wasn't just about destroying this thing for the sake of Earth but also for the team itself. For Kara.
Definitely! And it's also one that she would agree with--because we know she asks Anders to kill her rather than get taken to the farms. I think it's also likely she'd have shot herself rather than be taken by them. That's why I was a little surprised to see her calling Kendra out on her actions.

It's so beautifully tragic that his absolute trust in her could also be the cause of such irreparable harm.
It's ALL about trust for me. The entire Razor episode was about trust. The theme comes up again and again: Gina and Cain, Cain and Kendra, Lee and Kara, Bill and Lee, Kendra and Kara... it's in all of those plots. And it's the darkest exploration of trust I think I've ever seen.

He should know better than to get Lee-ish (TM me) on her ass while she's that emotionally volatile. You're supposed to BACK AWAY, MAN!
Haha, yes! ;)

An obvious testament to how much she trusts and respects Lee, and how much she appreciates the fact that it's not an easy decision for him to make.
That's the only possible reading that I can see and it really gutted me because it's really shown me how much Kara loves and respects him. *weeps* It's incredible that I'm saying that after THIS episode, I think. But truly, I can't think of anything that would show me that quite so much as her willingness to lay down her life if he asked. It's ironic perhaps that the episode that brings me closest to agreeing with Kara fans about Kara is also likely to drive a splinter through fandom in regards to Lee.

I know that they both get each other on such a fundamental level that they don't always need to say what they're really thinking/feeling. That's not to say that it wouldn't be healthy once in a while to actually be serious. *G*
Oh, totally. I'd like to see an equivalent conversation between them as the one in, um, can't remember the episode but where Lee confronts her about her shooting him. I think his subconscious anger about that is a parallel to Kara's subconscious emotions here. They both know they're not logical or rational feelings because the other one wasn't really 'to blame' (well Lee was far more culpable than Kara but she clearly supports his decision) but they have them anyway.

He's proven himself to the Greater Good, now he needs to prove himself to Kara.
*cries actual tears* I couldn't agree more. After Razor I pretty much don't give a shit if Lee fucks off the entire rest of the fleet as long as he stays with Kara and believes in her to the end.

I am torn up by Razor because I'm in two minds about what it means for season four and for Lee/Kara in particular. I think it was anvilly about how tightly the two of them are bound so it gave me a lot of hope that they were going to play that card big. But it was also SO DARK that I worry. And of course it was also Ron giving us more angst for them. Waah! If he tears them apart in Season 4 I'll be ragey. I am trying to remind myself that chronologically Razor falls in the period when Lee and Kara were arcing as far away from each other as they possibly could. Season three brought them back together and if Ron follows classic storytelling, season four will see them overcoming all obstacles together. But I also think he's going to pull out the massive tragedy card, so I'm scared.

[asta77.livejournal.com]

I have issues with the scene in which Lee orders the ship nuked and then Kara to stay behind, but the issues are with Adama and not Lee. I think you and others make excellent points as to why Lee chose Kara to stay behind and it was obviously a damn difficult decision, but one he had to make. You know I am NOT a Lee/Kara shipper, but it has always been obvious he does love her. He's also the Commander of the Pegasus and, as such, has to put the well being of the ENTIRE crew before one team or one person no matter who they are. I've already seen around LJ comments about Lee, once again, trying to get Kara killed. Sorry, but didn't she shoot him? And don't get me started on her flying hung over. Or putting Anders ahead of the fleet. These are both flawed people who have made bad choices or choices they felt were right, but turned out bad. Unlike Cain, their heart was always in the right place.

Speaking of Cain, the one thing that really struck me and will be a focal point of my analytical post is that in her quest for survival so they could regain the "luxury" of being human again, she all but destroyed their humanity. One of the most startling scenes for me was seeing Fisk's reaction to news of a fleet of civilian ships - that there were other human beings out there. The expression on his face was that of joy and, in that moment, he had hope again. Less than a minute later, Cain destroyed that hope. Add that to that the massacre he had to be part of, she destroyed him. I think he gave up on humanity then so that when the black market came calling, he willingly threw his hat in with them. What did he have left to fight for?

Oh, and I think I hate Helena more now than I did before. I didn't think that was possible! I do feel Ron and Co. actually had some success early in the film at humanizing her. But once she so quickly and emotionlessly put a bullet in the head of her XO and friend she went back to being the queen bitch of the colonial fleet to me.

There were many instances of people being shown to be defined by their actions. One thing I found very interesting (and telling) is that being put into a command position, having to make the life and death choices, Lee's mind kept wandering back to the Olympic Carrier incident. What else could he have been referring to when he asks Kendra if she thinks she's the only one to have to make a tough call? Over a thousand people lost their lives because of him and he's facing that kind of responsibility again. I do think he believes, deep down, he made the right decision with the Olympic Carrier. He put the fleet first then and is doing it again (and will do yet again in Season 3) when he's willing to sacrifice Kara and the others.

I'll say that I found her crew bizarrely passive in response to the news that the colonies have been destroyed.

I found that odd too. Now a single person reacted to the news that, gee, their home and family was just wiped out. Adama made it clear to his crew that they had duties to perform and that they would grieve later, but we still saw signs that when they had time to grieve it was going to be devastating for them.

I love how Gina had the gun pointed at Cain and hesitated because she *did* care and how she wouldn't make that same mistake twice.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

. Sorry, but didn't she shoot him? And don't get me started on her flying hung over. Or putting Anders ahead of the fleet. These are both flawed people who have made bad choices or choices they felt were right, but turned out bad. Unlike Cain, their heart was always in the right place.
I completely agree. And his position as Commander of Pegasus demanded that he made that decision. Whereas the flaws you cite in Kara come more from accident or from recklessness or even wilful selfishness in the case of putting Anders ahead of the fleet. She's human though and as you say it puts her on a par with Lee--not all their decisions are good ones but they both have their hearts in the right place. There's miles of distance between them and Cain for all that Razor tried to show us the similarities.

n her quest for survival so they could regain the "luxury" of being human again, she all but destroyed their humanity
She did. I didn't buy that line at all. She wasn't 'human' to begin with and she wasn't ever going to be afterwards if she'd survived, imho. She always had that viciousness inside her and it shaped her after the attacks.

I think he gave up on humanity then so that when the black market came calling, he willingly threw his hat in with them. What did he have left to fight for?
Great reading on his character and I'd completely agree. That's what made me think of Cain as a dictator, a terrorist. She terrorised Fisk and he lost his humanity. The process was a bit different with Kendra because she held more in reserve while buying into Cain more actively.

having to make the life and death choices, Lee's mind kept wandering back to the Olympic Carrier incident. What else could he have been referring to when he asks Kendra if she thinks she's the only one to have to make a tough call?
You're right. I hadn't thought of it as that specific but at this point in the timeline, it must have been that. I guess that gave him strength in a way, and also defined him early on.

I love how Gina had the gun pointed at Cain and hesitated because she *did* care and how she wouldn't make that same mistake twice.
Great point--I didn't discuss that, but it was a wonderfully powerful exploration of the way we DO sometimes get 'do-overs' and we don't make the same decisions twice.

Thank you so much for reading--it's great to hear your thoughts.

[latteaddict.livejournal.com]

There's a big difference between knowing someone's a good officer and knowing they would lay down their life if you asked them to. Lee had to be absolutely certain the person he chose would do that--the ONLY person he trusts that much is Kara. And I think he's right. It takes someone with an extreme degree of willpower and also a fatalistic streak, someone who is willing to accept this is the end of the line for them. I think the fact that Kara was going to do it makes Kara exceptional. Mathias may be trustworthy in all normal circumstances but we have no evidence that she's exceptional.

Which way are we dealing with this? Is the argument that Lee's choice was based on emotion and therefore Kara was his emotional choice to choose because, as you said, it's because he knows he can trust her to carry out his orders. Or is it about logical military choices? Because all the disagreements over the season three NC arc have been between how could Lee leave those people (and Kara) to die, versus Lee was making sound military decisions.

So I figured Lee's choice to order Kara to blow up the nuke was a military decision. Which I argue against because Kara is far too valuable a military asset to blow her up when wounded people or a marine can accomplish the exact same job.

And why does Lee need a personal relationship to trust that his orders will be followed? He trusted Kendra with his entire Battlestar without knowing her. He told his father he trusted Kendra to do her job earlier in the episode. So if Lee could put that much faith in a woman he just met, then surely Mathias gets a few extra brownie points for already serving on Galactica and being trained in a very trustworthy environment.

If it was truly about Lee making the decision based on his emotions then it horrible, more horrible than I can imagine, to think Kara is the first person he wants to send to their death. And it hurts more thinking of it that way because I've never seen Kara blatantly and deliberately put him in the line of fire. I read what Asta said about Kara shooting Lee. But that was a complete accident. Kara wanted to save him. Her actions of flying hung over is shitty but still isn't Kara thinking deliberately in her head, you're going to die now Lee, nice knowing you. Kara putting Anders ahead of the Fleet - well if Lee was in danger by that action then it was indirectly and still not the same as Kara ordering Lee to his death. Apples and oranges. Both Kara and Lee have made bad choices. But this particular command choice of Lee's feels vicious and personal. There were two other choices Lee could have made (actually, three. I think there was one more member to the team) and yet Lee decidedly and clearly chose Kara to die. And then told her at the end that maybe she deserved to die. He didn't even crack a smile while saying it.

This is so tough for me to get my head around. I can only see it from Kara's POV and somehow I seriously doubt she thought Lee choosing her showed how much he loved and trusted her. Kara is a natural negative thinker when it comes to her value as a human being and Lee merely confirmed her beliefs. If Kara was truly okay with what Lee did then why would she transfer away from him.

I didn't think it was possible for pilot's relationship to get uglier and darker, but this episode achieved toxic.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Is the argument that Lee's choice was based on emotion and therefore Kara was his emotional choice to choose because, as you said, it's because he knows he can trust her to carry out his orders. Or is it about logical military choices?
It's a military decision based on all the evidence that Lee has to hand, including his personal assessment of the individuals. The reason for his decision is not emotional.

Kara is far too valuable a military asset to blow her up when wounded people or a marine can accomplish the exact same job
That can in theory, but the question is WILL they? You assume that any military officer would be willing to commit suicide for a superior officer. That's not the case. There's are a reason that kamikaze fighters and suicide bombers are trained separately from other troops--it takes a different psychology to be asked to go to that extreme in the name of service and duty. To wilfully destroy your own life is very different from dying under enemy fire. Can't you see that?

He trusted Kendra with his entire Battlestar without knowing her. He told his father he trusted Kendra to do her job earlier in the episode.
That exchange was all about how Lee only trusted Kendra to a point. His father told him that the personal relationship was necessary as well for him to be able to truly rely on his XO in that way. So that conversation fits exactly in the overall theme of the way personal relationships intersect with military imperatives and what happens when they do. So we had textual proof earlier in the episode that Lee couldn't rely on Kendra to go beyond the call of duty.

yet Lee decidedly and clearly chose Kara to die
Because it was the right military decision. I'm sorry if my comment above confused you into thinking I meant he had an emotional base for his decision. My point was only that in knowing Kara more intimately, Lee could be absolutely sure that she'd do it. Perhaps if he'd known Kendra for longer he would have got to a point where he could be certain she'd do it. But tat THIS point in time Kara was the only one he had a close enough knowledge of to be sure he'd do it.

The fact that knowing her that well meant he could trust her to do it would have EATEN LEE ALIVE. Don't be any doubt about that. (Pointless words: I know you are.)

then told her at the end that maybe she deserved to die. He didn't even crack a smile while saying it.
I didn't like that line either, but it was clearly intended as a joke. He raised an ironic eyebrow, if not a full smile--neither of them were smiling because they knew the true weight of the situation.

If Kara was truly okay with what Lee did then why would she transfer away from him.
My read on that was that she was ok with it intellectually, but not emotionally. Parallel situation with Kara shooting Lee: Lee knew that it was an accident and was fine with that at a rational level, but emotionally it still hurt. If Kara hadn't been fine with it on a military level, I'm SURE she'd have given him and Bill both a piece of her mind--she doesn't exactly hold back with that stuff, as we saw in this episode.

[brokenmnemonic.livejournal.com]

My take on Lee ordering Kara to stay behind is completely opposite to yours. To me the most logical person was Mathias.
I'm sorry, but in military terms, that's completely and categorically wrong. Kara and Kendra are officers. Matthias is an NCO. It would completely destroy all faith in the military and the chain of command if Lee passed over Kara and ordered Mathias to stay behind - it would state clearly to everyone in the fleet that military order and discipline don't matter if you're a friend of a senior officer. Lee was trying to rebuild pride in the Pegasus, and be a good CO. Ordering Mathias to stay behind would fly in the face of everything the military stands for. He knew it. Kara knew it.

[brokenmnemonic.livejournal.com]

I can only see it from Kara's POV and somehow I seriously doubt she thought Lee choosing her showed how much he loved and trusted her.
No, you aren't seeing this from Kara's POV. You're seeing it from your POV. I can say this, because you almost never see things from Kara's POV or Lee's POV when it comes to thinking of them as military officers. They aren't star-crossed lovers on Star Trek. They are portrayed consistently as living military personnel fighting a war. More than that, Kara Thrace is a career soldier. She grew up with a Marine for a mother. She grew up knowing exactly what it means to join the military. She knows what it means to be in command, to lead people, to be responsible for others. She didn't object to the order, which she could and would've done if she felt it was an illegal order. She tried to stop Kendra. She knew exactly why Lee gave the order he did, and if she felt it was wrong she would've told him or Adama that at lenght, and we would've been shown it. She's never hesitated to do that in canon before.

[brokenmnemonic.livejournal.com]

My read on that was that she was ok with it intellectually, but not emotionally. Parallel situation with Kara shooting Lee: Lee knew that it was an accident and was fine with that at a rational level, but emotionally it still hurt.
I also think that this is a perfect example of why the military has fraternization regs. Lee and Kara both know how Lee feels about her. Kara knows that her being there puts Lee in the potential position of having to face ordering her to her death again - and that their connection, their feelings, could impair his judgement. Lee wouldn't order her away, or at least, he wasn't ready to yet - but sooner or later, he would have too, or he'd have to compromise his performance as a Commander - and the human race needs him to be a Commander first and foremost. By transferring back to the Galactica, Kara makes that decision for him - she does the responsible thing both for him, the military, and the human race. She knows it. He knows it as well, which is why he doesn't even pretend to object.

[brokenmnemonic.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the forewarning - I made sure I was doing something else at the same time as I watched, so that I could stay somewhat detached from it.

Having watched it, I think that this is going to be one of those things that could potentially lead to me upsetting a lot of people. I wasn't shocked with Lee's decision to nuke the station - I could see his reasoning behind it. I wasn't shocked that he ordered Kara to complete the mission - not only is that how the chain of command works, with her as the surviving officer, but it says a lot about Lee that he's strong enough to make the decision despite it being Kara, and a lot about how he doesn't hesitate because he knows she'll finish the mission. There's a huge amount of trust there. I'm also not surprised that Kara transferred to the Galactica, or that she arranged the transfer rather than Lee - she knew how difficult that decision was, and she knows that Lee cares enough about her to potentially compromise his ability to make hard decisions in the future. This is why the military has frat regs - it's a perfect, glowing, neon-illuminated example, and it says volumes about both that they both know why she's transferring and neither of them comments on it because they're pilots. This did more to make me feel shippy than almost all of S3.

I'm sorry to hear it's turned you back into an insomniac though - you're meant to be resting and recuperating. Can I prescribe Tim Tams and Bob Bob time to cheer you up?

[latteaddict.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure Ron Moore would realise that the general audience wouldn't know a detail like that and if it was important and actually weighed in Lee's decision there would've been a throw-away line to cover it.

So I am not wrong in my scene interpretation at all - simply because I am not a in the military. That's why shows take the time to explain the relevant information and social structures. If the show ignores it, it either doesn't pertain to the Galactica universe or isn't relevant.

[brokenmnemonic.livejournal.com]

I think you're making a seriously big assumption about the general audience. We've had three seasons of a show about the military, complete with pivotal episodes right from the start like 33 that are all about making tough decisions. Pegasus was all about the chain of command. So was 33. The drama in Resurrection Ship came from the dilemma between chain of command, personal loyalty and personal responsibility.

You're wrong in your interpretation of the scene because you're working from flawed assumptions. You've also decided that Kara is the single most important thing in Lee's world, and that therefore every decision he makes must emphasise how important she is, and if it doesn't, it's because he doesn't care - even if it completely flies in the face of the canon established by the structure of the show and the society in it. The show has shown us repeatedly how important decisions and responsibility are. Lee even spoke at length on the stand at the difference between a society and a group of thugs with guns. Adama talked about the difference between the military and police early in S1. Lee talked about the importance of the law and due process in Bastille Day. The show is littered with social commentary and the conflicting demands between duty, survival, personal morality and emotion.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

I wasn't shocked with Lee's decision to nuke the station - I could see his reasoning behind it.
so could I but it came too fast to me--it just felt rushed. I felt like I could see Ron pressing the 'fast forward to melodrama' button, you know? I think it would have worked for me if there'd just been a beat or two more of them acknowledging the mission was lost. It's a personal thing.

I wasn't shocked that he ordered Kara to complete the mission - not only is that how the chain of command works, with her as the surviving officer, but it says a lot about Lee that he's strong enough to make the decision despite it being Kara
Oh totally. I was unshocked by it, though it was painful emotional territory. I found it very effective because it WAS so painful, if that makes sense. It should be. It's a hard area and it makes me feel like Lee really got to experience all the weight of command.

it says volumes about both that they both know why she's transferring and neither of them comments on it because they're pilots.
*nods* I agree.

This did more to make me feel shippy than almost all of S3.
:) It felt very shippy to me too. They felt so intimate in Razor--all those silent understandings and that last scene that was so incredibly underplayed. And the 'you're stuck with me'!

I'm sorry to hear it's turned you back into an insomniac though - you're meant to be resting and recuperating. Can I prescribe Tim Tams and Bob Bob time to cheer you up?
Ah, you know me--give me horror material to work with and my unconscious will have a field day. The nightmares from Razor ain't pretty! ;) And that damn prophecy really got under my skin which I know is daft because it's a Cylon God and all... wisteria_ did a good job of telling me what a duffer I was being to worry about that... but I just got creeped.

Bob Bob and I have had much quality time--I don't think he likes the idea of me going back to work--I've got used to vidding with him in my lap and his head propped on my arm.

[bop-radar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, good point--he'd be accused of protecting his officers at the expense of the NCOs--there'd be an outcry!