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Unfinished Business: the extended version
So the internet fairies delivered me the extended version of Unfinished Business, and since it's been so very long since I had anything new to chatter about with BSG, I'm eager to talk about it. Anyone else seen it yet? Be warned, though, that my reaction is highly shippy--this being the K/L-shippiest episode of all time, it was kinda unavoidable. ;)
First let me say that I *loved* the short, edited version of Unfinished Business and I'm not that surprised to find that I still greatly prefer it to the longer version (I love good editing!). In some cases,I'm very glad that the extra footage didn't make the cut, in others I'm delighted that the scenes were at least shot/scripted. The extended version is very revealing, but it left me with far more conflicted feelings than the short version did.
Before I get to pilots on their own, let me first say: poor Dee! She always gets her scenes cut, and this is a case where her side of the story got cut out almost entirely. Adama's call about her needing the fight too was really tragic in a way: the fight turned out to be the last thing Dee 'needed'. I think this version makes everything--the fighting, the frakking, the marrying--a FAR bigger screwover of Dee. And it makes it obvious long before TAB that Lee was in major, major denial and his attempts not to 'lie' to Dee are farcical. While that's always been suggested, it doesn't make for pleasant watching to have it spelt out like this.
On a lighter note (sort of!), Lee's reaction to Dee showing up at the dance made me total LOL. Which is terribly mean to Dee, but oh, man, that is NOT how you want your husband to greet you. He looked oh 'oh, damn, why are YOU here'. And his awkward hug seemed to be totally avoiding a direct kiss, even before he blew her off for Kara. I couldn't help wincing at how far gone Lee was in that moment--he seemed not at ALL cut up about turning down sex with his wife for a fight with his ex. It was worse than that--because there was no guarantee the dance would go on long enough for them to fight again: one of their tags had to be drawn out. So it made it seem like Lee had committed to the bout just as much as Kara had. In the edited version, I think that was less obvious.
I'm very glad that most of the dialogue between Dee and Lee didn't make the final cut--it was too overstated, especially the story about the boys that used to beat Dee up. But at least it showed that Dee's not stupid--and she was trying to get Lee to talk about the situation, only he just wouldn't admit anything. Even before she explicitly asked him not to, she was making it pretty hard for Lee to step in the ring with Kara, because by saying 'your fight is about passion' the minute he did so, it was a betrayal of Dee. Lee, of course, was wrapped in about ten layers of denial. When he says that Kara's just been pissing him off... well, that is ALSO true, but it's definitely not the whole truth. And apparently the whole room knew it.
The extended version does clear up the mystery of why Dee wasn't phased by Lee not coming to bed with her that night. I kind of thought she must have known about the field, but it seems she didn't. It also seemed to be suggested that she was piecing things together after Kara dropped the line about having 'been there done that'. She thought there was UST between Kara and Lee and was worried it was unresolved, but then she learns that there's more of a history than she thought. Adding to the sting is the fact that it was Dee who encouraged Lee to stay out that night, and who commented that she'd never seen him so happy. Dee is actually a LOT more clear-sighted about the whole situation than Lee, who later mentions the happiness that he's experienced with Dee: Dee herself knows that pales in comparison to the way he glows around Kara.
Until the proposal scene between them, I really wasn't finding a lot of their interaction revealing. But I actually found the proposal scene itself very powerful. (Don't die of shock!) This scene really shapes the entire Lee/Dee marriage and I think it would have made more sense to viewers if it could have been left in. It makes Kara totally right to call Lee on being a hypocrite. If she 'ran' then so did he; she did so in response to intimacy, he did so in response to rejection. It's all transparently obvious in the scene with Dee. Lee is jittery and all over the place, he can't compose himself and he's rushing to excesses that don't actually hold any weight. He as much as says 'Kara got married, so i may as well marry you now... I'm trying to put the best spin on this as I possibly can'. Oh, Lee! *buries face in hands and despairs* Dee can see that and she calls the situation COMPLETELY accurately. I've never really warmed to Dee as a character, but I do respect her for that. When she said 'you love Kara Thrace', Lee looks so startled--you can see him thinking 'how does she know about last night?' and panicking. Dee's completely right--the two of them are 'linked somehow' and one day Kara will be back.
This scene gives confirmation of Dee's own motivations in the marriage. Her line reflects Roslin's about 'living every day as if it's the last'. She's taking what she can get, while she can, even if it's not perfect. However, she also sends Lee into a massive guilt spiral here. Not undeserved, perhaps, but also not at all healthy or helpful. She says she'll love and cherish him despite knowing he loves Kara. That doesn't leave Lee any way to be honourable and I think it really hurts him that he can't return her love exactly. He's still struggling with Kara's rejection--he seizes on that when Dee says 'when Kara Thrace comes walking back'. For him, he's trying to absorb the fact that it's totally over with Kara. But when he catches himself arguing with Dee, I think he realises a moment too late that what he should be saying is not 'Kara's not coming back' but 'I love YOU'. It IS easier for both of them to kiss in that moment than to keep arguing and dealing with the painful truth.
Lee's going to cop a lot of crit for all the lying he does in this episode. Even from me. He basically acts like a total shit and he uses denial as a coping mechanism. He tries desperately to compartmentalise, telling himself that his realtionship with Dee is NOT about Kara in any way. But it's transparently obvious that it was always a reaction to Kara. Ouch. He had to stay in denial to make the relationship work, but as soon as that was broken down (in the dance) it all fell apart.
Final note on Dee: Gaeta really should have taken her by the arm and whisked her away from the ringside. Symapthetic glances not enough!
Tongue-in-cheek question: Does Kara ever have sex with the person she's actually having sex with?! ;) Flashing to the Kara/Lee field sex during the extended version of the Kara/Sam sex made it far more explicit that she wasn't really connecting with Sam in that moment. I'm not quite optimist enough to believe we were really meant to think Kara was consciously thinking of that moment but evoking it still added a lot more weight to Sam's 'maybe I'm not what you really want' call. I liked the extended dialogue between Kara and Sam for a couple of reasons: firstly because it made Sam seem less of a pushover and secondly because the extra Kara dialogue seemed revealing to me. Her line about not trying to change Sam's mind read to me like a line she'd prepared in advance--because Sam wasn't talking about his mind in that moment, he was talking about hers.
The moment when Kara catches sight of Lee in the ring was far more powerful in the edited version, but I think in this version there was a few extra seconds of her actually clapping the fight, which I liked. And she looked so playful bouncing into the ring. It also seemed just as obvious, if not more so, that she came to the dance to pick a fight with Lee or that she decided on that course of action pretty fast once she turned up.
I was interested to see the extra Lee/Helo moment after their fight. It made them seem a lot more amicable and made it explicit that they respect one another. I always wondered about their fight, about who picked it and how much animosity was there before and after it, because those two clashed a number of times in Season 3. This tips the scales back towards them being on 'buddy' terms.
The scene I really loved was Kara and Anders with the Tighs. Omg, how lolarious! Kara was adorable with her 'they're not going to be friends, are they?' (no honey, but they ARE going to be Cylons!) and her freaked-out eyes at Ellen making an overt pass at her boyfriend. Oh, Kara, you're too cute.
And wow, turns out Sharon's a better gal!pal than I realised. Hearing her bring up Lee with Kara was somewhat startling because Kara/Lee are so rarely acknowledged by other crew mates but she was right on target: Kara was definitely conflating. Also, the dialogue seemed to indicate that Lee met Kara when she was already with Zak. Hmm. What it really got me thinking about though was what mistakes Kara thinks Lee has been making 'since the day he met me'. At first that line made NO SENSE to me at all. Was she complaining that he'd made moves on her? or that he hadn't? I tried both readings and decided that it was a complicated combination of both that made no logical sense but made sense in Kara!brain. ;) The line ties with Kara's call about Lee not knowing 'when to make his moves and when to hold back'. (But when IS that, Kara? could you give him a guidebook, because it sure as hell isn't clear to me!) Kara's anger seems to be twofold: she's ostensibly angry at Anders for being too possessive, but it's hinted in the field scene that she wishes Lee had been able to admit he needed her earlier. I guess that's the paradox: Kara wants to be needed/loved, but she also hates being 'trapped'. (Ok, someone come tell me if I've read Kara completely wrong.)
When Kara took Lee on the tour of her house, Lee saying 'don't jinx it' really hit me in the gut because I feel like HE jinxed it by saying 'Kara Anders' and because I think he meant it genuinely at that moment... only they're both about to ruin four people's lives. *wibbles*
But this scene had me all up and down emotionally, because on the other hand I liked that Kara played up the innuendo with the bedroom--it was a bit more of a come-on then we'd seen from her in the edited version and helps explain how Lee got the courage up to make a move. It was so obvious from his behaviour that he was jealous, that he didn't think much of 'pyramid boy' and that he wished that house was his.
I liked Kara's vulnerability in the 'got anyone in mind, Lee?' moment. But I thought the shorter version, sans applecarts, was more romantic. (However, I'm torn, because Lee casting himself as applecart-upsetter is kind of adorable.)
One thing I didn't like: the longer version made Kara's screamed love declaration far more of a dare. Lee's little line about her being 'afraid' would have totally goaded her into it, regardless of what she truly felt. So I was all busy feeling upset about that, and then...
SHE SAID IT. SHE SAID IT FOR REALZ!!!
Hearing Kara ask Lee if he was sure she was what he wanted totally startled me--so many Kara fans have told me she was genuinely anxious about his feelings, but it's usually so hard for me to see that. So I really appreciated seeing her actually ask him. And as if that wasn't enough SHE SAID SHE LOVED HIM. USING THE FIRST-PERSON PRONOUN. NOT JUST AS A DARE! *squeeeeeeeeee* I never dared believe she'd really said that to him. I am SO glad (even if it made the next morning more painful). I see why Jamie mentioned this moment of the pilots being honest with each other as one he would have liked left it. Apart from anything else, they mentioned ZAK! I'm very glad about that because I do think he was a shadow between them for so long. But I am also glad that Lee's dialogue showed that it wasn't just Zak that held him back, it was also his own fear. And then when Kara answered him it seemed like she recognised that feeling herself--it felt like she found a way to understand Lee a little better maybe, because she had fears of her own. I was surprised by how gentle she was with Lee, and how forgiving she seemed in that moment. It made it really seem like she'd wished he'd made a move earlier but had been too afraid herself to do anything about it--which makes a stronger parallel between both of them.
And as if the 'I love you too' was not enough, we got another little smile from her afterwards as they kissed and she relaxed in his arms. That TOTALLY matched the smile in his arms at the end of the fight! *more squee*
Watching Unfinished Business this time was a different experience for me even without the longer version, simply because I happen to be in quite a 'Kara-y' mood/place at the moment. I'm not sure why, except that I've been missing her. And my first reaction to seeing her in UB was 'omg, I'd forgotten how awesome you are!' despite the fact that she was frakking over Lee. So even her ultra-bitchy comments in this didn't really bother me. I giggled at 'Hold that thought, ok?' in response to Lee screaming 'motherfrakker' at her. She's so damn infuriating and so damn adorable all at the same time!
The Tigh scene, which I already knew about, was actually better in execution than it sounded on paper. I thought Katee brought a lot to that scene--she made it seem a lot more natural than I thought was possible. Like the Dee stuff, I am glad they cut it because I think it was overstated to have her reflect on 'survival instinct'. But I do think the fact that she came back to town and got a taste of 'reality' would have made the night before seem surreal, like something that couldn't be trusted.
And ok, I STILL don't completely understand why she ran from Lee. However, I think the heart of it has got to lie in the different sources of fear for Kara and Lee. Lee's fear is of rejection--he'll do anything to avoid it. But once Kara accepted him and his love for her, his fear evaporated. Presumably that's when Kara's fears were most kicking in. If it's not rejection she fears, it's intimacy? expectations?
From a boxing pov, I really liked the line 'did I break the rules?' as an acknowledgment that Kara did play dirty in that fight. But Lee's response shows it didn't really matter--the entire fight was outside the parameters of the 'dance' and he knew all bets were off. I rather liked Lee having the guts to call her on the fact that she ran, that her action was self-protective, that she's always closed-off.
With the extended fight, I find myself with the same conflicted feelings I have about the whole extended episode: on the one hand, I liked the extra material because it did add something to the picture. But on the other hand, I found the short version far more powerful and effective. Even more 'romantic' in a way. I liked the idea of a non-verbal 'fight to a standstill'. But it was impossible not to grin at 'why? so you can hit me some more?' (And pssst, Lee, that's what you need to do: HANG ON SO SHE CAN'T HIT YOU ANY MORE! Physically OR emotionally!) Also, I really loved Kara saying 'I think things just got more complicated'. It made an even clearer parallel to their post-coital scene in the field. And I loved Lee's hysterical reaction to her saying that. I SO thought he was going to kiss her. But then his giggle could have been a 'oh shit, I might just wind up hurting her nose more, if I try that' as well as a giggle at the sheer frakked-up-ness. It was somehow cathartic to see them collapse together, but I really wish Dee hadn't still been there. Having them end in a tumble on the ground though reminded me of them nearly suffocating together.
Dee is right. They are tied together somehow. And I wish they'd just accept how much they need each other already!
Oh, show! Come baaaaaaaaack, I missshhhs you!
First let me say that I *loved* the short, edited version of Unfinished Business and I'm not that surprised to find that I still greatly prefer it to the longer version (I love good editing!). In some cases,I'm very glad that the extra footage didn't make the cut, in others I'm delighted that the scenes were at least shot/scripted. The extended version is very revealing, but it left me with far more conflicted feelings than the short version did.
Before I get to pilots on their own, let me first say: poor Dee! She always gets her scenes cut, and this is a case where her side of the story got cut out almost entirely. Adama's call about her needing the fight too was really tragic in a way: the fight turned out to be the last thing Dee 'needed'. I think this version makes everything--the fighting, the frakking, the marrying--a FAR bigger screwover of Dee. And it makes it obvious long before TAB that Lee was in major, major denial and his attempts not to 'lie' to Dee are farcical. While that's always been suggested, it doesn't make for pleasant watching to have it spelt out like this.
On a lighter note (sort of!), Lee's reaction to Dee showing up at the dance made me total LOL. Which is terribly mean to Dee, but oh, man, that is NOT how you want your husband to greet you. He looked oh 'oh, damn, why are YOU here'. And his awkward hug seemed to be totally avoiding a direct kiss, even before he blew her off for Kara. I couldn't help wincing at how far gone Lee was in that moment--he seemed not at ALL cut up about turning down sex with his wife for a fight with his ex. It was worse than that--because there was no guarantee the dance would go on long enough for them to fight again: one of their tags had to be drawn out. So it made it seem like Lee had committed to the bout just as much as Kara had. In the edited version, I think that was less obvious.
I'm very glad that most of the dialogue between Dee and Lee didn't make the final cut--it was too overstated, especially the story about the boys that used to beat Dee up. But at least it showed that Dee's not stupid--and she was trying to get Lee to talk about the situation, only he just wouldn't admit anything. Even before she explicitly asked him not to, she was making it pretty hard for Lee to step in the ring with Kara, because by saying 'your fight is about passion' the minute he did so, it was a betrayal of Dee. Lee, of course, was wrapped in about ten layers of denial. When he says that Kara's just been pissing him off... well, that is ALSO true, but it's definitely not the whole truth. And apparently the whole room knew it.
The extended version does clear up the mystery of why Dee wasn't phased by Lee not coming to bed with her that night. I kind of thought she must have known about the field, but it seems she didn't. It also seemed to be suggested that she was piecing things together after Kara dropped the line about having 'been there done that'. She thought there was UST between Kara and Lee and was worried it was unresolved, but then she learns that there's more of a history than she thought. Adding to the sting is the fact that it was Dee who encouraged Lee to stay out that night, and who commented that she'd never seen him so happy. Dee is actually a LOT more clear-sighted about the whole situation than Lee, who later mentions the happiness that he's experienced with Dee: Dee herself knows that pales in comparison to the way he glows around Kara.
Until the proposal scene between them, I really wasn't finding a lot of their interaction revealing. But I actually found the proposal scene itself very powerful. (Don't die of shock!) This scene really shapes the entire Lee/Dee marriage and I think it would have made more sense to viewers if it could have been left in. It makes Kara totally right to call Lee on being a hypocrite. If she 'ran' then so did he; she did so in response to intimacy, he did so in response to rejection. It's all transparently obvious in the scene with Dee. Lee is jittery and all over the place, he can't compose himself and he's rushing to excesses that don't actually hold any weight. He as much as says 'Kara got married, so i may as well marry you now... I'm trying to put the best spin on this as I possibly can'. Oh, Lee! *buries face in hands and despairs* Dee can see that and she calls the situation COMPLETELY accurately. I've never really warmed to Dee as a character, but I do respect her for that. When she said 'you love Kara Thrace', Lee looks so startled--you can see him thinking 'how does she know about last night?' and panicking. Dee's completely right--the two of them are 'linked somehow' and one day Kara will be back.
This scene gives confirmation of Dee's own motivations in the marriage. Her line reflects Roslin's about 'living every day as if it's the last'. She's taking what she can get, while she can, even if it's not perfect. However, she also sends Lee into a massive guilt spiral here. Not undeserved, perhaps, but also not at all healthy or helpful. She says she'll love and cherish him despite knowing he loves Kara. That doesn't leave Lee any way to be honourable and I think it really hurts him that he can't return her love exactly. He's still struggling with Kara's rejection--he seizes on that when Dee says 'when Kara Thrace comes walking back'. For him, he's trying to absorb the fact that it's totally over with Kara. But when he catches himself arguing with Dee, I think he realises a moment too late that what he should be saying is not 'Kara's not coming back' but 'I love YOU'. It IS easier for both of them to kiss in that moment than to keep arguing and dealing with the painful truth.
Lee's going to cop a lot of crit for all the lying he does in this episode. Even from me. He basically acts like a total shit and he uses denial as a coping mechanism. He tries desperately to compartmentalise, telling himself that his realtionship with Dee is NOT about Kara in any way. But it's transparently obvious that it was always a reaction to Kara. Ouch. He had to stay in denial to make the relationship work, but as soon as that was broken down (in the dance) it all fell apart.
Final note on Dee: Gaeta really should have taken her by the arm and whisked her away from the ringside. Symapthetic glances not enough!
Tongue-in-cheek question: Does Kara ever have sex with the person she's actually having sex with?! ;) Flashing to the Kara/Lee field sex during the extended version of the Kara/Sam sex made it far more explicit that she wasn't really connecting with Sam in that moment. I'm not quite optimist enough to believe we were really meant to think Kara was consciously thinking of that moment but evoking it still added a lot more weight to Sam's 'maybe I'm not what you really want' call. I liked the extended dialogue between Kara and Sam for a couple of reasons: firstly because it made Sam seem less of a pushover and secondly because the extra Kara dialogue seemed revealing to me. Her line about not trying to change Sam's mind read to me like a line she'd prepared in advance--because Sam wasn't talking about his mind in that moment, he was talking about hers.
The moment when Kara catches sight of Lee in the ring was far more powerful in the edited version, but I think in this version there was a few extra seconds of her actually clapping the fight, which I liked. And she looked so playful bouncing into the ring. It also seemed just as obvious, if not more so, that she came to the dance to pick a fight with Lee or that she decided on that course of action pretty fast once she turned up.
I was interested to see the extra Lee/Helo moment after their fight. It made them seem a lot more amicable and made it explicit that they respect one another. I always wondered about their fight, about who picked it and how much animosity was there before and after it, because those two clashed a number of times in Season 3. This tips the scales back towards them being on 'buddy' terms.
The scene I really loved was Kara and Anders with the Tighs. Omg, how lolarious! Kara was adorable with her 'they're not going to be friends, are they?' (no honey, but they ARE going to be Cylons!) and her freaked-out eyes at Ellen making an overt pass at her boyfriend. Oh, Kara, you're too cute.
And wow, turns out Sharon's a better gal!pal than I realised. Hearing her bring up Lee with Kara was somewhat startling because Kara/Lee are so rarely acknowledged by other crew mates but she was right on target: Kara was definitely conflating. Also, the dialogue seemed to indicate that Lee met Kara when she was already with Zak. Hmm. What it really got me thinking about though was what mistakes Kara thinks Lee has been making 'since the day he met me'. At first that line made NO SENSE to me at all. Was she complaining that he'd made moves on her? or that he hadn't? I tried both readings and decided that it was a complicated combination of both that made no logical sense but made sense in Kara!brain. ;) The line ties with Kara's call about Lee not knowing 'when to make his moves and when to hold back'. (But when IS that, Kara? could you give him a guidebook, because it sure as hell isn't clear to me!) Kara's anger seems to be twofold: she's ostensibly angry at Anders for being too possessive, but it's hinted in the field scene that she wishes Lee had been able to admit he needed her earlier. I guess that's the paradox: Kara wants to be needed/loved, but she also hates being 'trapped'. (Ok, someone come tell me if I've read Kara completely wrong.)
When Kara took Lee on the tour of her house, Lee saying 'don't jinx it' really hit me in the gut because I feel like HE jinxed it by saying 'Kara Anders' and because I think he meant it genuinely at that moment... only they're both about to ruin four people's lives. *wibbles*
But this scene had me all up and down emotionally, because on the other hand I liked that Kara played up the innuendo with the bedroom--it was a bit more of a come-on then we'd seen from her in the edited version and helps explain how Lee got the courage up to make a move. It was so obvious from his behaviour that he was jealous, that he didn't think much of 'pyramid boy' and that he wished that house was his.
I liked Kara's vulnerability in the 'got anyone in mind, Lee?' moment. But I thought the shorter version, sans applecarts, was more romantic. (However, I'm torn, because Lee casting himself as applecart-upsetter is kind of adorable.)
One thing I didn't like: the longer version made Kara's screamed love declaration far more of a dare. Lee's little line about her being 'afraid' would have totally goaded her into it, regardless of what she truly felt. So I was all busy feeling upset about that, and then...
SHE SAID IT. SHE SAID IT FOR REALZ!!!
Hearing Kara ask Lee if he was sure she was what he wanted totally startled me--so many Kara fans have told me she was genuinely anxious about his feelings, but it's usually so hard for me to see that. So I really appreciated seeing her actually ask him. And as if that wasn't enough SHE SAID SHE LOVED HIM. USING THE FIRST-PERSON PRONOUN. NOT JUST AS A DARE! *squeeeeeeeeee* I never dared believe she'd really said that to him. I am SO glad (even if it made the next morning more painful). I see why Jamie mentioned this moment of the pilots being honest with each other as one he would have liked left it. Apart from anything else, they mentioned ZAK! I'm very glad about that because I do think he was a shadow between them for so long. But I am also glad that Lee's dialogue showed that it wasn't just Zak that held him back, it was also his own fear. And then when Kara answered him it seemed like she recognised that feeling herself--it felt like she found a way to understand Lee a little better maybe, because she had fears of her own. I was surprised by how gentle she was with Lee, and how forgiving she seemed in that moment. It made it really seem like she'd wished he'd made a move earlier but had been too afraid herself to do anything about it--which makes a stronger parallel between both of them.
And as if the 'I love you too' was not enough, we got another little smile from her afterwards as they kissed and she relaxed in his arms. That TOTALLY matched the smile in his arms at the end of the fight! *more squee*
Watching Unfinished Business this time was a different experience for me even without the longer version, simply because I happen to be in quite a 'Kara-y' mood/place at the moment. I'm not sure why, except that I've been missing her. And my first reaction to seeing her in UB was 'omg, I'd forgotten how awesome you are!' despite the fact that she was frakking over Lee. So even her ultra-bitchy comments in this didn't really bother me. I giggled at 'Hold that thought, ok?' in response to Lee screaming 'motherfrakker' at her. She's so damn infuriating and so damn adorable all at the same time!
The Tigh scene, which I already knew about, was actually better in execution than it sounded on paper. I thought Katee brought a lot to that scene--she made it seem a lot more natural than I thought was possible. Like the Dee stuff, I am glad they cut it because I think it was overstated to have her reflect on 'survival instinct'. But I do think the fact that she came back to town and got a taste of 'reality' would have made the night before seem surreal, like something that couldn't be trusted.
And ok, I STILL don't completely understand why she ran from Lee. However, I think the heart of it has got to lie in the different sources of fear for Kara and Lee. Lee's fear is of rejection--he'll do anything to avoid it. But once Kara accepted him and his love for her, his fear evaporated. Presumably that's when Kara's fears were most kicking in. If it's not rejection she fears, it's intimacy? expectations?
From a boxing pov, I really liked the line 'did I break the rules?' as an acknowledgment that Kara did play dirty in that fight. But Lee's response shows it didn't really matter--the entire fight was outside the parameters of the 'dance' and he knew all bets were off. I rather liked Lee having the guts to call her on the fact that she ran, that her action was self-protective, that she's always closed-off.
With the extended fight, I find myself with the same conflicted feelings I have about the whole extended episode: on the one hand, I liked the extra material because it did add something to the picture. But on the other hand, I found the short version far more powerful and effective. Even more 'romantic' in a way. I liked the idea of a non-verbal 'fight to a standstill'. But it was impossible not to grin at 'why? so you can hit me some more?' (And pssst, Lee, that's what you need to do: HANG ON SO SHE CAN'T HIT YOU ANY MORE! Physically OR emotionally!) Also, I really loved Kara saying 'I think things just got more complicated'. It made an even clearer parallel to their post-coital scene in the field. And I loved Lee's hysterical reaction to her saying that. I SO thought he was going to kiss her. But then his giggle could have been a 'oh shit, I might just wind up hurting her nose more, if I try that' as well as a giggle at the sheer frakked-up-ness. It was somehow cathartic to see them collapse together, but I really wish Dee hadn't still been there. Having them end in a tumble on the ground though reminded me of them nearly suffocating together.
Dee is right. They are tied together somehow. And I wish they'd just accept how much they need each other already!
Oh, show! Come baaaaaaaaack, I missshhhs you!
no subject
We do see a little more from Kara's pov, and she comes across more sympathetically in the extended version, but I still struggle to understand her motivations. (
Not so happy about it painting Lee in such a bad light, because he gets enough crap from fandom as it is.
Tell me about it! I get so sick of the Lee-bashing, and this ep won't help. I love Lee to bits and what I see here only made me feel more for him, but it's definitely Lee at his least noble.
I think I like the blame being more evenly balanced between the two of them.
I found I really liked that. It makes it much more obvious that they were BOTH heavily in denial and relying on 'fight or flight' responses. Having Lee propose to Dee so fast after Kara proposed to Anders makes the two marriages even more clearly paralleled.
The fact that we get a real 'I love you' from Kara is amazing - that will make everything else worth it I think. *squee*
It did for me. ;) Seriously, nothing could have made me happier! :) It's a really good one too. I was always so worried she only said it because Lee dared her too and she's Kara Thrace and can't appear chicken about anything. But this one comes after they've opened up to each other and even my Kara-doubting heart can't see how it's anything but genuine. (If only genuine in that moment... it seems like the next morning she shut down on those feelings again.)
I think I came away from the extended version feeling surer that Kara really did want Lee--that was an unexpected bonus.
no subject
I've seen torrents up for the extended eppy. I'll have a hunt around and see if I can find one for you.
Cheers. I had a quick search around today and couldn't see anything - I'm obviously looking in the wrong place.
I love Lee to bits and what I see here only made me feel more for him, but it's definitely Lee at his least noble.
The thing about BSG is that everyone is so flawed, but for the most part you can't help but love them and feel for them. That's what makes it such an amazing show - no matter what happens you don't stop caring about them. But for me that runs far deeper with Lee than anyone else I think. I don't always agree with him, but I always see where he's coming from and why he makes the decisions he does. And so even at his bitchiest I never stop loving him.
But this one comes after they've opened up to each other and even my Kara-doubting heart can't see how it's anything but genuine.
I tell myself, and anyone who wants to listen, that Kara absolutely does love Lee, but with Kara nothing is certain. I always believed she was genuine at that time, but for her to actually say the words is a huge thing - especially for her to put herself out there, lay her heart on the line like that. I'd love some more explicit explanation as to why Kara left in the morning, but I'll just stick with my usual reasoning I guess.
I've never been a huge Dee fan - not since S1 Dee anyway. But I have always felt somewhat bad for her. I actually like knowing that she knew exactly what she was getting herself in to marrying Lee. It doesn't absolve Lee, but it does lay a lot more responsibility on Dee. It shows that Lee was probably deluding himself more than he was her. I find it hard to feel much sympathy for someone who puts themselves in that place like Dee did - getting involved with someone when you know you're not their first choice. It's hypocritical because I have done that myself, and I don't even have the excuse of maybe getting blown up by a Cylon tomorrow. But it's nice knowing she went in with her eyes fully open.
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I'm obviously looking in the wrong place.
Sit tight. I'll email you a link.
But for me that runs far deeper with Lee than anyone else I think. I don't always agree with him, but I always see where he's coming from and why he makes the decisions he does. And so even at his bitchiest I never stop loving him.
Same. :) He feels so complete and comprehensible as a character to me. And so complex. I know others find him a mystery, or annoying, or think he's badly written... but he's one of my favourite characters ever.
I'd love some more explicit explanation as to why Kara left in the morning, but I'll just stick with my usual reasoning I guess.
Well, there's been some interesting discussion about the extended version already. And a few people have pointed out some extra points about how it played out for Kara. I might wait until you've seen it to say more, but you may be pleasantly surprised.
It shows that Lee was probably deluding himself more than he was her.
That's a very accurate summation. And yeah, I don't find Dee very appealing as a character either, but her actions are human and fairly comprehensible. Life isn't perfect and we all make compromises at times.
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I didn't find Lee as bad as I expected to based on your post - though I know you were saving yourself from getting accused of being Lee biased. :) He was far from perfect, but everything he did felt so much like a reaction to Kara running that I couldn't blame him too much. I'm sure it could be argued that that's no excuse, but I think it was all understandable. I think helping Lee's corner is the fact that Dee was so completely aware of everything. If she'd been in the dark, I'd feel worse for her. I don't blame her for taking her chances with Lee, even if she was second best, because the life they live means they have to take every chance at happiness they get.
I actually came out almost feeling less kind to Kara than I had in the original version. We got the love comment (which was amazing and made me cry) but the extended conversation in the field showed just how much Lee (and Kara) put themselves out there. Lee put his heart completely on the line for her. Admitted he was scared, they discussed Zach... Lee was 100% committed to being with her, he wanted to tell Dee and Anders and truly start something. And then Kara ran. Now, Kara did the same thing, admitting how she felt, and I still understand what made her run, but the fact that she did hit me far harder here than the first time around.
So can we now count Kara telling Lee she loves him - and who could not believe her in that moment - as canon?
I have one problem with this episode, but this was the same in the original version and I wondered what you thought. I've never understood Adama's reaction (or lack of) when telling Lee that Kara got married. Adama is a very intelligent, observant man. He can be a little blind when it comes to his family, but still. For him to not notice the way Lee was literally breaking in front of him always threw me. I mean someone who had never met Lee before could see that his heart was shattering in a million pieces. Was Adama really that blind to what was going on, or was he just being deliberatley obtuse?
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I totally was! Which is soooo pointless since I fess up to that constantly and it's never going to change. But to be honest, I started to anticipate the Lee hate in advance ... I think I start to flinch in anticipation of fandom. ;)
If she'd been in the dark, I'd feel worse for her. I don't blame her for taking her chances with Lee, even if she was second best, because the life they live means they have to take every chance at happiness they get.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. And I agree--I don't feel so bad for her now.
Now, Kara did the same thing, admitting how she felt, and I still understand what made her run, but the fact that she did hit me far harder here than the first time around.
I had the opposite reaction but that could be because of shock. The first time I was completely unspoilt and it just hit me in the gut. I'm still not sure I understand why she ran, to be completely honest. This time the shock was less. But I do agree that it's more heartbreaking to see Lee bear his soul so MUCH and then know she ran anyway.
So can we now count Kara telling Lee she loves him - and who could not believe her in that moment - as canon?
Yessssss, I believe we can. :) It wasn't replaced in the short version--just cut for time. I take that as canon.
I've never understood Adama's reaction (or lack of) when telling Lee that Kara got married.
I know! It's completely ridiculous. Unfortunately I think even the writers just laughed that off. I think it's a case of it being too hard for them to show Adama having a reaction at that point in time because of the can of worms it would have opened (what does he think about it? does he feel it's a betrayal of Zak? Will he have to TALK to his son about it?) I think they just ignored the problem because it was too hard. But it does make that scene ridiculous. I think we have to assume that Adama was still slightly stoned and didn't really notice or thought Lee was just nauseous from a hangover. Or something. ;) *fanwanks*