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bop_radar ([personal profile] bop_radar) wrote2006-02-04 11:52 pm

Smallville 5.13 Vengeance

I am certainly Late to the Party this week but thanks to the lovely [livejournal.com profile] katetheother I was able to view this week's ep with only a day's delay, despite my DL capacity being maxed. Hopefully I'll be all back to normal very soon.

Vengeance or Justice?
I really enjoyed the echoes of Clark’s future in this week’s episode. The Angel of Vengeance (have completely forgotten her actual name!) was an interesting if obvious way to explore Clark’s future identity and how his handling of emotional issues will play a key role in shaping his future behaviour. Both the Angel girl and Clark experience grief which turns to anger. Angel chooses to express it in vengeance. She calls it ‘justice’ but when they find the man who killed her mother, she takes his life. She appears to be emotionally shaken by this later, and so we get a sense that Clark is not so different from her. He could have been like this if he’d had different emotional development. Clark saves Lionel from her, but Lionel suggests that Clark did it ‘for her’. He’s right, and taking this a step further, Clark does it for himself, for the part of his self that will become the Justice League character of the future. Clark defines himself as the person who doesn’t take that last vindictive step.

I was really happy to hear Clark confess to Chloe that he felt like crushing the thief’s windpipe would make everything better but realised it wouldn’t. The danger in Clark’s denial mechanism is that his repressed grief comes out in moments of extreme rage and he needs to acknowledge his emotions in order to gain control of them. Chloe has become an important voice of reason in Clark’s life.

X chromosomes win
I liked the gender reversal with the Angel character and there were a few other interesting developments with the female characters this week. I found Martha’s scene with Chloe interesting. With Jonathan gone, we see Martha turn to Chloe, saying that she’s happy someone else shares Clark’s secret. Martha visits her at the Daily Planet, Chloe’s workplace, something that we haven’t seen before. It’s a subtle exploration of the way relationships are redefined after a death. The dynamics shift and realign. Clark’s secret is now shared by two women rather than his parents. Martha has also assumed control over Jonathan’s senate seat and what’s to happen with it. In subtle ways the women on the show (especially Martha, Lois and Chloe) are slowly growing in power within Clark’s life.

Fathers
After Clark saves him, Lionel places his hand on Clark’s shoulder, in an echo of Jonathan’s trademark parental/dominant body language, and says ‘thank you, son’. I found that scene quite chilling although I really enjoyed Lionel’s return to open gamesmanship with Lex in this episode. Lionel’s motives have been ambiguous all season and remain so, but it was interesting to have at least some of his agenda(s) revealed. I remain unsure of the exact nature of the connection between Jor-El and Lionel. Lionel’s ‘I’m back’ line could be read as indicating that Jor-El’s time of using Lionel has completely passed. On the other hand, Jor-El has stated that he can access Lionel as his ‘vessel’ at any time. It’s also unclear just how much Lionel has deliberately orchestrated this season. In that way Jor-El and Lionel are easy to conflate since both of them are powerful figures whose power is amorphous and undefined. We know some instances where they’ve clearly exercised it but it’s possible to attribute many more actions to them.

Just as the Angel of Vengeance served as a stand-in for Superman, Lionel serves in this episode as a stand-in for Lex in the future. We can imagine the same scene played out between Clark and Lex in the Luthorcorp tower in the future. In fact, Lionel was only there temporarily. Since Lex is blackmailing Lionel with the knowledge that he met with Jonathan before his heartattack, we can presume this information is not going to be revealed to the Kents in the near future. Angel asks Clark what he would do if he was face-to-face with his father’s killer and in an extreme reading, that’s what Lionel is. Since Clark doesn’t have the knowledge to actually confront Lionel, this was a nice way of handling the audience’s privileged knowledge.

Grief
Jonathan the real person is gone. What remains is his memory and the collection of associations that people have with him. The classic Smallville markers of identity--physical space (the barn) and clothing (old flannel and farm clothes) were used to show how Martha and Clark are coping with their grief. Martha admits to her emotional response to these reminders of Jonathan, but Clark initially only admits to frustration. He’s locked in denial.

Martha offers him a personal memento (watch), which is another classic Smallville trope. Lana and Lex have both carried objects that remind them of their lost parents. Clark initially refuses the watch but admits its significance at the end of the episode and puts it on.

But for me the most telling aspect of the grief-processing that Martha and Clark did in this episode was in the final scene where they watch the home video. Smallville plays with image and truth and this scene really brought home to me how much Jonathan exists merely as image now. He’s the smiling father playing with his son on the tractor and it’s important for Clark and Martha to hang on to that. Clark admits in this episode to hearing his dad’s voice in his head holding him back from vengeance. There is irony in that, since Jonathan was a man who lost his temper more than most and from whom Clark learnt stubborn denial as a coping mechanism. But that real Jonathan, with all his flaws, is gone. The grief process has turned him into an iconic figure for his son and wife.

Boundary transgressions
I’ve had a lot of time for Lana this season: she’s demonstrated that she has a backbone, she’s asserted herself appropriately and she’s behaved with dignity under difficult circumstances. But I really didn’t like her behaviour in this episode. For me, this was a real return to Season 1 Lana, who desperately loves being ‘needed’ by her boyfriend, and who uses grief as a way to connect with people. I was sorry to see this sort of character regression.

Lana and Clark have broken up, yet Lana still has ‘full access’ to Clark, entering the Kent premises without knocking and immediately bringing up Clark’s loss. Although she says that Clark doesn’t have to open up to her, her behaviour suggests that that is exactly what she would like, that despite her rejection of their relationship, she’s desperate to reconnect with him now he needs her. Yes, I do think this stems partly from genuine sympathy and compassion on Lana’s part. But I also think she’s self-serving. She doesn’t respect Clark’s boundaries. Having her around can only be emotionally distressing for him, and she doesn’t give him space.

She’s not the only character to tread a thin line between appropriate and inappropriate behaviour in this episode. Lex visits Lana at the Talon and attempts to repair the rift between them. Despite her deflections he remains insistent on pressing home that he is there if she needs him (obviously not picking up on the signals that she’s far more interested in being needed herself—by Clark). Lionel visits Martha and attempts to form the basis of a new type of relationship with her. In Lionel’s case, he visits Martha in the barn, a space occupied in the past by Jonathan, so although Lionel makes no overt move towards her, the undercurrent that he is seeking to replace Jonathan is there.
ext_2583: "Lady Agnew" by John Singer Sargent (Lana)

[identity profile] mskatej.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 03:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I totally agree about Lana's behaviour, which I found reprehensible in this episode, and yes, I too have liked her a lot more this season, so it was disappointing to see her act so amazingly selfishly in the wake of her ex boyfriend's father's death. Somehow she managed to make it all about her. For starters, there is no comparison between what she has been through and what Clark is going through. And telling him he needs to talk about it and all her other "advice", god, is like, so off the scale out of order, that I just wanted him to deck her. He's grieving. He'll do it without you, thank you very much. DEAL WITH IT.

[identity profile] norwich36.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 03:53 pm (UTC)(link)
But I really didn’t like her behaviour in this episode. For me, this was a real return to Season 1 Lana, who desperately loves being ‘needed’ by her boyfriend, and who uses grief as a way to connect with people. I was sorry to see this sort of character regression.

Well, so far you are joined in this by [livejournal.com profile] latxcvi, [livejournal.com profile] khohen1, [livejournal.com profile] acampbell, [livejournal.com profile] maskatej, and probably some others I'm forgetting, so that seems to be the consensus view of Lana in this episode, and it's kind of freaking me out that I have the urge to *defend* Lana. Because I *don't* read her behavior just as someone who needs to be needed--I read it as her being the one person (of the four who explicitly expressed concern over Clark's emotional shutdown in this--Martha, Chloe, Lex, and Lana) who actually had a *shot* at getting Clark to open up, so that's what she was trying to do). I think she thinks that, but I also think the writers think that. Lana has a dual role here: her own motivations, and what the authors need her to be doing symbolically--and maybe it's because I'm hyperaware of the second part of this that I'm not as mad at Lana as some other folks seem to be.

I mean, yes, she was definitely crossing boundaries--when she just came into the house without knocking I was a little stunned, and I do think she's acting a little too much like they haven't broken up--but on the other hand I thought, actually, that this was finally a scene where her own experience of grief was being used appropriately, for once. Losing a parent at 4 isn't the same as losing one at 19, but it is a starting point for connection. And Lana clearly feels guilty for breaking up with Clark when she did, and is trying to reconnect.Plus, the fact that she went to every pawn shop in Metropolis to find that watch does a lot toward rehabilitating her beahvior in the episode, for me.

I do agree with you that her boundary crossing is paralleled with Lex and Lionel's , though I guess I didn't see her use of her own experience of grief with Clark as *quite* as manipulative as Lex and Lionel's. Actually, I loved the way this episode managed to remind us of the griefs that all the major characters in the series bear, and the different ways they let those griefs shape their lives. And in *that* sense I agree with your criticism of Lana, in that she needs to figure out where she is going and not dwell in the past, but unlike Lex or Clark she doesn't have any kind of moral legacy left from her parents. A kryptonite necklace is *only* a symbol of loss, whereas Lillian and Jonathan's symbolize the values they passed down to their children.

[identity profile] norwich36.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 03:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Umm, that's supposed to be [livejournal.com profile] mskatej, up there. And Lillian and Jonathan's *watches.* Ok, I was so excited you were posting I made the mistake of replying before I had my morning coffee!

[identity profile] norwich36.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 04:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, I am spamming your comments like mad, but I wanted to respond to this separately so it didn't get lost in arguments about Lana.

After Clark saves him, Lionel places his hand on Clark’s shoulder, in an echo of Jonathan’s trademark parental/dominant body language, and says ‘thank you, son’. I found that scene quite chilling although I really enjoyed Lionel’s return to open gamesmanship with Lex in this episode. Lionel’s motives have been ambiguous all season and remain so, but it was interesting to have at least some of his agenda(s) revealed. I remain unsure of the exact nature of the connection between Jor-El and Lionel. Lionel’s ‘I’m back’ line could be read as indicating that Jor-El’s time of using Lionel has completely passed. On the other hand, Jor-El has stated that he can access Lionel as his ‘vessel’ at any time. It’s also unclear just how much Lionel has deliberately orchestrated this season. In that way Jor-El and Lionel are easy to conflate since both of them are powerful figures whose power is amorphous and undefined. We know some instances where they’ve clearly exercised it but it’s possible to attribute many more actions to them.

It was chilling and creepy, especially when he called Clark "son." And *damn* I wish we knew whether "I have returned" meant Lionel's back in control, or Jor-El is, but I guess speculating is half the fun, as long as they eventually make it clear by the end of the season. If they don't, I'll be *so* mad!

Smallville plays with image and truth and this scene really brought home to me how much Jonathan exists merely as image now. He’s the smiling father playing with his son on the tractor and it’s important for Clark and Martha to hang on to that. Clark admits in this episode to hearing his dad’s voice in his head holding him back from vengeance. There is irony in that, since Jonathan was a man who lost his temper more than most and from whom Clark learnt stubborn denial as a coping mechanism. But that real Jonathan, with all his flaws, is gone. The grief process has turned him into an iconic figure for his son and wife.

That's just all so *true*! I had the same thought you had about how ironic it was that *Jonathan* would be the one telling Clark to control his temper, but you're right that he's now just an iconic figure. And that makes an interesting contrast to Jor-El, who is also dead but remains an active presence in his son's life. (Though I am frankly relieved that we don't have an AI spouting Jonathan's platitudes to Clark!)

[identity profile] lilahlackey.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 04:31 pm (UTC)(link)
It's always so nice to read such a thoughtful analysis. It probably makes me think about the episode a lot more than it merits, but it's fun!

After Clark saves him, Lionel places his hand on Clark’s shoulder, in an echo of Jonathan’s trademark parental/dominant body language, and says ‘thank you, son’.

Lionel really is trying to step into Jonathan's shoes in this episode, isn't he? I was really surprised that Clark didn't react to that in any way. He just stood there and accepted it. They looked disturbingly similar as the camera pulled back - similar stances, looking out over the city, hair blowing in the wind. It would be interesting, especially if Lionel and Martha get closer, to see if Clark would be desperate enough to look for a father figure in Lionel.

But that real Jonathan, with all his flaws, is gone. The grief process has turned him into an iconic figure for his son and wife.

Although Martha was capable of seeing Jonathan's flaws, and loved him despite them, I don't know that Clark was ever aware of them. Perhaps if he had lived longer, there would have been a chance for Clark's hero-worship to diminish a bit, but now it's just increased. Of course, he could be a much more positive influence now that the flawed reality isn't going around giving sanctimonious advice to everyone, so this could be good. We'll have to see.

Lana and Clark have broken up, yet Lana still has ‘full access’ to Clark

Ah, the oldest question in the book: If you break up with your boyfriend four hours before his father dies, does it take? Seriously, though, this seemed very in character for her and reminded my of why I dislike Lana so much when she's with Clark. I don't think she is capable of growing when she's with him, it's as though she is trapped into the image he had of her at 14. Her continuing friendship with Lex should make her more watchable - I was surprised by how well she pulled off the awkwardness of their meeting in the Talon.

part I

[identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 06:14 pm (UTC)(link)
K, I love reading your reviews so much, because I just really dig the way you engage with the show on its symbolic level and do such a good job of laying out its semiotic, metaphorical, allegorical and analogous richness. I always look forward to your reviews, and you never disappoint.

Now, on to Vengeance:

I was really happy to hear Clark confess to Chloe that he felt like crushing the thief’s windpipe would make everything better but realised it wouldn’t.

It's interesting: For all that both Martha and Lana seemed to be concerned that Clark wasn't "opening up" enough, he actually *did* open up with Chloe. He told her towards the beginning of the episode how guilty he felt looking at his mom and his dad's things, and then, after the final confrontation with Andrea, he confessed to Chloe that he wanted to kill Snake even though he pulled himself back from it and realized it wouldn't make things any better. And I think that underpins part of my irritation with Lana this week; she wasn't willing to deal with or acknowledge the idea that maybe Clark just didn't want to talk about what he was going through *with her*.

After Clark saves him, Lionel places his hand on Clark’s shoulder, in an echo of Jonathan’s trademark parental/dominant body language, and says ‘thank you, son’. I found that scene quite chilling

You know what I loved about it? Lionel might as well have been a *gnat* for all that he was *completely insignificant* to Clark in that moment. Clark's got so much other stuff on his mind and in his heart that he's not even bothering to indulge Lionel's attempts at "small talk". Now, I expect, in the future, to see both Clark and Martha deal with Lionel with a certain amount of diligence and distrust/wariness -- because they have good reasons to distrust his intentions and I expect them (and the creative team) to remember that -- but just that moment, I loved it that Clark couldn't be assed to care what Lionel thought or was saying.

Since Lex is blackmailing Lionel with the knowledge that he met with Jonathan before his heartattack, we can presume this information is not going to be revealed to the Kents in the near future.

I absolutely *lllllove* what this implies about just *how* closely Lex has been paying attention to Lionel's comings and goings. And even Lionel didn't expect him to know that Lionel was behind the Apex Corp. and its hostile takeover bid, yet Lex did. I'm telling you, Lionel's downfall is going to be that while he does understand that Lex is a threat, he underestimates just how *serious* of one Lex is.

But for me the most telling aspect of the grief-processing that Martha and Clark did in this episode was in the final scene where they watch the home video. Smallville plays with image and truth and this scene really brought home to me how much Jonathan exists merely as image now. He’s the smiling father playing with his son on the tractor and it’s important for Clark and Martha to hang on to that.

*nods* Grief and death often 'soften' the reality of a person (witness, for example, the whitewashed hagiography of the lives of Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon, and John Paul II after they all died), and I thought the show's visual presentation of that idea was simply *masterful* (even as it made me cry like a little girl). Jonathan Kent was a decent man, but his death will cause Clark (and Martha) to remember him as being an even *better* person than he really was. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though, because it's going to inspire Clark to be a better person than *he* already is and that way ... lies the hero of the future.

[identity profile] rumpuso.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 06:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I think she was being 'happy helperton' and for a lot of us it came off as her being a bit too presumptuous of her ability to connect with Clark in his grief. I really thought she should back away a tad so that Clark could work out his grief in his own way. But then, to me, she saved face at the end of the episode by searching and finding the beloved watch. That was a beautiful thing for her to do and showed much more compassion than her false empathy in the beginning of the show.

[identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 06:34 pm (UTC)(link)
read it as her being the one person (of the four who explicitly expressed concern over Clark's emotional shutdown in this--Martha, Chloe, Lex, and Lana) who actually had a *shot* at getting Clark to open up, so that's what she was trying to do). I think she thinks that, but I also think the writers think that.

I disagree, because the writers actually did have Clark open up to someone without much prompting: Chloe. He told her at the beginning of the episode about his guilt, the way he could barely look at his mom or his dad's things. And later in the episode, Chloe was the person to whom he confessed how good it felt to throttle Snake even though he ultimately knew and understood that killing Snake wouldn't be right or make him feel better. Clark actually wasn't completely closing off here, and the confession of the *guilt* is actually the most complicated (whereas sadness and anger are emotions most people expect others to feel when they unexpectedly lose a loved one, to the point that people don't need to *say* "I feel angry" or "I feel sad"; it's just understood people will feel these things in the wake of a loved one's death; *guilt* is different, though, and it's more complicated). So I disagree that the writers felt like Lana was one person with the best shot of getting him to open up (especially when the entirety of their relationship problems have been about the fact that Clark ... doesn't open up to her).**

I do, however, agree that *Lana* believed this to be the case, and I think that's what lies at the heart of my annoyance with her. If she hadn't just broken up with him, I think her believing this would make a lot of sense, and would even, on some level, be justified (as I said elsewhere, a significant other *does* get to say "Honey, please don't shut me out on this"; an *ex*-SO? not so much, IMO). But she did just break up with him, and I can't help but feel like Lana should understand that maybe even if Clark wanted to talk about all of this, he wouldn't necessarily want to talk about it *with her*.

** I'll acknowledge here that this whole issue also pushes a personal button of mine, which is that I don't buy into the pop psychology philosophy that the best or only way to properly process one's emotions grief -- or one's emotions in general -- is by being open and effusive with them as opposed to being reticent and withdrawn.

Withdrawal into one's self, reticence to speak of how one is feeling ... these are perfectly valid coping and grieving mechanisms. So I didn't like the suggestion that Clark isn't properly processing his grief because he doesn't want to talk about it to anyone/everyone willing to listen. And I partly felt like Lana was trying to tell him the proper way to grieve and that's just ... there *is* no baseline "right" or "wrong" way to grieve, and Clark's not somehow being dsyfunctional because he isn't processing his grief the way the other characters think he should be.

[identity profile] rumpuso.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 06:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Your reviews always interest me because you give the episode much deserved thought and you are kind enough to share your analysis with us.

Two points I want to mention. 1) In reference to Lana, other than her trying to connect with Clark in the beginning of the episode when she obviously was failing miserably, I thought her role in Vengeance was quite beautiful. (Please see my above comment to mskatej above). I loved that she was the one who had searched to pawn shops to locate the watch. Clark has loved her for his whole life practically and whether or not they made it as a romantic couple doesn't negate the fact that both of these characters have deep feelings of affection for one another. The gift of finding his father's watch at the end spoke volumes of her ability to connect with Clark in a way others have not been able. 2) I found that the writers dropped the ball with Chloe this week. To me, she was shown with a lack of empathy to his plight at the beginning of the episode. She showed more interest in her front page news story, than Clark's grief and upset over his mother's mugging. I suppose though, that is Smallville canon since she and Clark have had this argument in the past. What comes to mind first is her refusal to back off her investigation into Clark's adoption a few seasons ago. Then, she acknowledged it herself in the episode 'Truth' from season 3. I just don't like this part of her personality. At all. Never have. But that's Chloe, I suppose. I also am not comfortable with the importance they are putting on such a secondary character. I understand that Martha was concerned for Clark when she went to see Chloe at the Daily Planet, but I somehow wish that scene had been written in a different location, with Chloe and Martha meeting, but not making it a 'Martha going to Chloe for advice' scene. Martha is worlds smarter than Chloe and doesn't need a kid's advice for anything in my opinion.

I guess if anyone bugged me in this episode, it was how they wrote Chloe. I did adore her mugging scenes with Clark. That was funny. But I'm not buying her as being the 'James Bond' expertise, computer afficianado. She's a kid in her first year of college. Nothing more.

[identity profile] rumpuso.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 06:44 pm (UTC)(link)
I forgot to add, that she is also Clark's best friend. That serves great importance for Clark because he no longer has Pete to go to with his alien concerns or his real life relationship concerns. But that's where it should end.

p.s.

[identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 07:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Plus, the fact that she went to every pawn shop in Metropolis to find that watch does a lot toward rehabilitating her beahvior in the episode

I do agree with this, and actually, I think this action -- her finding and returning the watch -- was a much better instance of her trying (and actually *succeeding*) at simply being there for Clark than what she was doing in the first scene. And it did make me feel better about her at the end of the episode.

part II

[identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 07:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Lex visits Lana at the Talon and attempts to repair the rift between them. Despite her deflections he remains insistent on pressing home that he is there if she needs him (obviously not picking up on the signals that she’s far more interested in being needed herself—by Clark).

I read this very differently. Or rather, I didn't read Lex's conduct throughout the scene as being manipulative until right at the very end when he said the line about being there when *she* needed someone to lean on.

I got the impression that the events of this episode take place very close in time to the events of Reckoning, and it was clear that this was the first time Lex and Lana had seen each other since the scene on Rt. 40. Whatever else Lex and Lana might be becoming, they did just resolve in Lockdown to repair their *friendship*. Lex wanting to apologize once he was sober struck me as the kind of thing one friend would do with another, especially since his drunken behavior *did* contribute to her almost getting into what we know would have been a very tragic and serious accident. Him enquiring after Clark initially also struck me as something a friend would reasonably do. After all, Lana *did* come over to the mansion and spend a good minute bitching about the mess that was her relationship with Clark, and she did allude to the fact that they'd broken up ("Clark and I had our last fight").

Again, if this is the first time Lex and Lana have seen each other since the last time we saw them in Reckoning, then the things he said in the first part of the scene *are* the natural and organic things I'd expect anyone in his position to bring up. I don't really think he got -- or was being -- manipulative until *after* he sensed Lana hadn't had much success in getting Clark to open up to her/let her be there for him. It was only at *that* point did he play the "I can connect with you in ways Clark can't or won't" card.

Re: part II

[identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 07:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Him enquiring after Clark initially also struck me as something a friend would reasonably do.

That should have been "Him enquiring after the status of her relationship with Clark ..."
ext_9263: (sad clark)

[identity profile] kristiinthedark.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 07:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm still so amazed with how you make me think deeper about SV.

I really appreciated the way the grief of Martha and Clark was handled. First with the watch and second with the video. There was so much symbolism in both of those things for me. I saw the way Clark reacted to watch as denial, and to the video as acceptance. Not total acceptance, but a step in that direction. And while I found the funeral last week to be beautiful, it didn't touch me near as much as the video.

[identity profile] valentinesecret.livejournal.com 2006-02-04 08:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Image

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 12:38 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, that was my instinctive response with Lana too. I disliked the way she assumed that their experiences were equivalent. It's the most naive mistake that you can make when speaking to someone in the grips of grief and loss.

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 12:41 am (UTC)(link)
Good call! I liked the pragmatism of her finding the watch. While Clark and Chloe were off taking the hard approach, Lana went to the pawn shops... demonstrating great practical logic! Yes, it was better than her false empathy at the beginning. I just wish this had been her sole act, and that she'd made it less about *her*. I would have been more moved by it if it hadn't been accompanied by her insistence on playing a role in Clark's grief process.

However, I think I'm responding this way partly because she has a history of this sort of behaviour--with Mr Fordman's death and all. It just builds up a bad picture.

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 12:48 am (UTC)(link)
Oh no--go for it! Defend her, by all means. You know I'm always interested to hear other sides and I really don't *like* disliking her so redeem Lana if you can!

I think you and [livejournal.com profile] rumpuso's call about her actually finding the watch is a good strong point. That's a solid commitment in terms of time and emotion and shows the degree to which her experience really does lead her to empathise with Clark.

However, I really don't think she *is* the best person for Clark to connect with. She's not the only one to have lost a parent--it was the perfect op for them to use Lois if they wanted to. And Chloe has been an excellent confidant for Clark this year. I don't think he necessarily needed someone who could understand his exact experience. But I see the point your making and evidently it is how the writers were thinking.

(No, her behaviour is less manipulative than Lex or Lionel--I think they are on a spectrum from 'fairly harmless' to 'outright disturbing'!)

You're spot on about the symbolism with the mementos though. You really nailed that this week!

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 12:55 am (UTC)(link)
Great call about Clark discussing guilt with Chloe. I agree that that was the most complex emotion he was experiencing and therefore his opening up to her was one of the most significant emotional breakthroughs in the episode. The other, for me, was him turning to Martha and crying in her arms. I was so relieved because the two of them need to grieve together, at least briefly, to reconnect as a family.

In many ways Clark's phase of denial was a natural stage of grief, and I found Lana's behaviour presumptuous partly because of her insistence that he move through that phase so quickly. On the other hand, I was fearful that he would remain in that phase. I did want him to process his grief, be it alone or with someone else, but I think I most wanted him to reach out to Martha a bit more, which he did by the end of the ep.

I suspect this episode hit buttons for many people because it dealt head-on with grief and emotional processing and we all have our own sensitivities about that.

(Mine was definitely the 'all griefs are equivalent' theme running through the ep, which I baulked at, but I'm trying to bite that back! I know it's just a personal issue of mine.)

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 12:59 am (UTC)(link)
If they don't I will be SOOOO mad! Oh yes.

The Jonathan-as-icon moment really hit home for me in the scene when they paused him on the screen and panned across to his son and mother grieving. It was a very haunting image. It reminded me of the time when Clark tried to reach out to his grandfather and he brought him a book of family photos, saying 'this is what we're really like'. Clark thought he was showing his grandfather the *true* Kents, but actually, it was Clark who was trapped in the golden image of his family, not recognising the painful political truths.

[identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 01:42 am (UTC)(link)
In many ways Clark's phase of denial was a natural stage of grief, and I found Lana's behaviour presumptuous partly because of her insistence that he move through that phase so quickly. On the other hand, I was fearful that he would remain in that phase. I did want him to process his grief, be it alone or with someone else, but I think I most wanted him to reach out to Martha a bit more, which he did by the end of the ep.

You know, this is *exactly* it. Clark was totally moving through the stages of grief throughout the episode** (which is partly why, I think, the episode does end up being so effective as an exploration of Clark's grief through the vehicle of his interaction with Andrea/Vengeance). Smallville being the show it is, I guess I was just very confident that he'd reach acceptance by the end of the hour (whereas if this were something like ... Six Feet Under or Battlestar Galactica, then the story of Clark emotionally coming to terms with his father's death probably would be spread out over several episodes). And yeah, Lana's interaction with him at the beginning did feel like she was trying to direct how he should move through the stages, be it moving through any given stage quickly or opening up/talking about what he was feeling about all of it.

I suspect this episode hit buttons for many people because it dealt head-on with grief and emotional processing and we all have our own sensitivities about that.

*nods* I suspect that this episode has a lot more subjectivity flowing through people's reactions than the typical SV ep does, precisely because of the subject matter. And as I said in my own review, I also have a real button about ex-SOs who think it's perfectly Okay to expect the person they very recently dumped to share a new pain with them, so that was another layer of subjectivity bearing on my reactions to some of the ep's events.

** There is actually a deleted scene from Reckoning which covers the phase of bargaining. They filmed Clark taking Jonathan's body to the Fortress and pleading with Jor-El to let him undo things again. It was cut both for time and because it would have been repetitive of him bargaining for Lana earlier. I *really* hope it's included on the DVD set.

Re: part I

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 01:44 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks LaT! I really appreciate the compliment. I guess I'm a symbolism geek. The show just works so well at that level! I always look forward to your comments.

You're right about Clark and Lionel--he really couldn't care right then! That IS kind of great. gnat!Lionel!

Like you I was really relieved to see that Lex has been following Lionel's activities a lot closer than indicated earlier. It's a relief after Lex's apparent hopelessness in eps like Fanatic and so on. The Lionel-Lex power struggles are back on, and that's very exciting! I can't wait for the showdown.

The Jonathan-hagiography was one of the most interesting things about this episode. I found it really convincing, especially since Lana and Lex have also done this with their lost parents. I agree that it's not necessarily a bad thing, especially since in comparison to Lex and Lana, Clark is using Jonathan's iconified memory as a moral compass. [livejournal.com profile] norwich36 pointed out that Lex loses his mother's watch (and rejects her as moral compass) and Lana's memory of her parents is simply an image--not a moral compass. In comparison, Clark has something constructive to carry forward. That the image is not the *true* Jonathan no longer matters. It's very interesting because I think this happens in real life a lot, even if people would rather not acknowledge it.

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 01:57 am (UTC)(link)
Great to hear from you! Thanks for the comments. (And you're a Lilah fan! yay! she was one of my favourite Angel characters)

The shot of Lionel and Clark together was interesting as it seems to have provoked a number of different reactions. [livejournal.com profile] latxcvi above mentions Clark's indifference to Lionel, I was overwhelmed by the Jonathan parallels, and you've pointed out the similarity of stances, which I had missed on first viewing. It was a very deliberate shot that perhaps does foreshadow Lionel's plot in the future.

I agree about Clark not seeing Jonathan's flaws, whereas Martha was more aware of them. I must say I am enjoying Jonathan far more in absentia! And perhaps the fact that he did pass away before Clark came to be more clear-eyed about him will serve Clark well.

Yes--I'm enjoying Lana with Lex a lot more than Lana with Clark. I definitely agree that Lana can't grow when she's with Clark. I'm glad they've had their relationship and it was shown to be so fleeting, so limited and so age-appropriate (in terms of naivety and romantic dramatism). I guess I was just so glad it was over, I didn't like her clinging around him still.

[identity profile] norwich36.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 02:03 am (UTC)(link)
I disagree, because the writers actually did have Clark open up to someone without much prompting: Chloe

Yes, that's true. I think when I said "the writers" what I actually meant was "according to the longterm mysthology of the show." Because Clark and Lana *always* turn to each other in times of crisis, even if they have just broken up. This is just their emotional pattern: they break up, something horrible tragedy happens to one of them, they get (sort of) drawn back together.

The *viewers* know that this pattern has changed forever now, but Lana doesn't, so I guess I am just not as offended as some other folks at her acting like she still has girlfriend privileges. (I agree that her actual grief counseling leaves a lot to be desired, though!)

I do have to say I'm very happy that Clark is turning to Chloe rather than Lana for someone to confide in.

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 02:08 am (UTC)(link)
Heya! I really appreciate your comments and thanks for pointing out a different way of reading Lana in this episode.

Your comments about Chloe are really interesting. You're the first person to mention the scene where Chloe seemed so insensitive to Clark's mother getting mugged. I overlooked that in my review, but I had much the same reaction to it as you did. Sadly I think this is Smallville canon and is part of Chloe's character. It's one of her most unlikeable aspects. But I do think she's someone who is very personally driven, to the point of insensitivity.

It's interesting that you responded with discomfort to Martha visiting Chloe at the Planet. The show's spatial dynamics are so important that it seems really like a 'step down' for Martha, a show of weakness and dependency. I agree that Martha is the stronger of the two but I guess I forgave the writing this week because she's really hit rock bottom in grief for Jonathan. I'm presuming she'll find her own strength again shortly. I hope so anyway!

[identity profile] norwich36.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 02:17 am (UTC)(link)
It is interesting Lois *isn't* in this episode, because I would imagine she'd be grieving pretty intensely too--she was pretty close to Jonathan by the end, there. (Maybe because she would have insisted on going with Martha to the governor's office and then stopped her from doing something as stupid as wandering alone suicide slums alone after dark?)

I had another thought about Jonathan's watch, too. Clark got Jonathan's watch, just like Jonathan got his own father's compass--in both cases to be a moral guidepost. (Did Jonathan give the compass he got from Hiram to Lex for a wedding present, or was that a separate compass and only the tradition was the same?)

Re: part II

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 02:19 am (UTC)(link)
You know, I think you're right about this. I think it wasn't really manipulative until right at the end.

I did really like Lex's sober apology. I thought that was wonderful and so genuine. His enquiry about her relationship with Clark was a little too fast for me, but that's Lex--he's direct. So I don't think it was necessarily manipulative. I guess I'm just finding it painful watching Lex put his foot in it with Lana! He needs to ease off if he's to have any chance with her. A simple apology would have been nicer.

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 02:30 am (UTC)(link)
Yay comment! *hugs* Yes, I agree that Clark shifted from complete denial to some level of acceptance. And the video was really moving. I got teary-eyed again despite myself. And that's perhaps appropriate as funerals themselves are often so formal and so much about the people left behind that they can be less emotionally cathartic than, say, sorting through the lost person's things. Not always, of course, but in SV they did seem to contrast the cold formality of the funeral with the warmth and intimacy in this episode.

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 02:32 am (UTC)(link)
Why thank you! *blush* That is a very cute icon and a lovely surprise. How intriguing!
ext_3952: (Clark - cry)

[identity profile] duskwillow.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 03:30 am (UTC)(link)
I just read your review. Enjoyed it. A lot.
Then I read all the discussion in the comments. Wow. Amazing how everyone can have similar but still different views of the episode.
I'm late to the party, even later than you ;) , so yeah, everything I feel has already been said, so I'm just commenting to let you know how much I love your recaps. :)

Re: part II

[identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 03:46 am (UTC)(link)
I guess I'm just finding it painful watching Lex put his foot in it with Lana! He needs to ease off if he's to have any chance with her.

The funny thing is I actually think that had Jonathan not just *died*, thus triggering a certain amount of guilt on Lana's part and sense that she can't start moving away from Clark right now, she would have been more receptive to Lex's approach to her, at least this week (last week was just too soon for him to move in, but I also don't think Lana holds that against him because it's really not how he would have acted had he not been drunk).

Lana doesn't ever go for very long without being romantically entangled with someone; I think the longest she may have gone was that period in S2 between breaking things off with Whitney in Heat and receiving the news of his death in Visage. Shortly after he died, though, she and Clark were making eyes at each other and finally hooked up at the very end of S2. And even though they broke up at the beginning of S3, she and Clark did the "more than friends but not quite dating" dance throughout the entirety of that season until she fled to Paris and hooked up with Jason. She didn't even *break up with Jason* properly before rekindling things with Clark at the tail end of S4.

Given her prior pattens, I actually think that in the wake of the demise of her relationship with Clark, Lana probably would be receptive to Lex's attentions *but for* the way Jonathan's death and the way its timing unfortunately coincided with her dumping Clark. That complicates things (in much the same way she put her decision to dump Whitney and possibly make a play for Clark on hold in S1 when Whit's dad died (also, coincidentally, of heart problems)). Now, I agree that Lex should realize the complication and thus adjust his approach, but ... If he's been paying the kind of attention to Lana they keep trying to tell us he has been all this time, I can absolutely see where he'd think moving in quick is the way to go. 'Cause she *doesn't* leave a lot of gap time between boyfriends, please her tiny, princessy heart. ;-)

Re: part II

[identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 03:49 am (UTC)(link)
Er, that's "bless her tiny, princessy heart."

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 05:08 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, this was very much the 'grief' episode. And you're right that this being SV, that meant that a long process was condensed into one ep. Although, like you, I really hope that in this case there continues to be exploration of the grief over a few more eps. Please give us that at least, SV writers!

Re: part II

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 05:17 am (UTC)(link)
That's an interesting point. It would be very Lexian to adjust his approach to Lana's behaviour patterns I guess! And she certainly is a serial relationship hopper.

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 05:23 am (UTC)(link)
Yay! Thank you. *g* You're always welcome, no matter how late. I love hearing different people's povs. We all have subtly different responses.

[identity profile] bop-radar.livejournal.com 2006-02-05 06:42 am (UTC)(link)
I guess there are a number of reasons why Lois wouldn't have worked in this episode. I can understand the writers not wanting to detract from the grieving process of Martha and Clark by having the surrogate daughter around, but I honestly think it will have hit Lois very hard. (Since the writers have a limited number of eps that Lois can be in, I also suspect they're holding her back for a solid run of eps to the season finale.)

Good question about the compass. I'm pretty sure it was a separate compass--just the tradition.